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The risk of using Spitfire plugin on a commercial project

Fair warning, this is another generic disgruntled comment about SA that you should probably skip

As a consumer solely the main benefits of 3rd party Player would be a demo, a la carte purchase and maybe a subscription model and so far Spitfire doesn't seem interested in the last two, correct me if i'm wrong but this is what i got from their communications maybe i've missed some posts
So what do i get as a selfish self centered consumer? the demo version of the library (let's for the sake of this argument assume that the 200mb version of the library that is at least 23GB is enough to make a purchase decision) isn't that the same as the free version or freebies that other developers release some times ?
So far i'm only seeing drawbacks to this engine other than the technical limitations but for me personally I'd rather get something that i can work around rather than a brick wall that locks me out solely to discourage some A-hole who got it illegally from using it to make a loop or use it on a track that 4 of his freinds would listen to and say "nice"
 
Sounds like a legitimate pain alright, hopefully SF can do some streamlining or some such.

But in perspective

- I've had trouble with Kontakt / Native access also. Except that NI suppport take 2-3 weeks to reply.

- I'd had even worst issues with the copy protection going wrong on Adobe software - doing real damage, taking months to completely resolve.

- my VSL issues are spectacular and catastrophic compared this. (To the point that I will never buy VSL again)
 
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Isn't it possible to watermark software and then simply give the buyer a serial number once and for all? Then if the software gets spread illegally, the developer checks the watermark to see who spread it.

(But I guess if it was that easy, then that's what the developers would do instead of the current anti-pirate stuff)
 
hbjdk said:
Isn't it possible to watermark software and then simply give the buyer a serial number once and for all? Then if the software gets spread illegally, the developer checks the watermark to see who spread it.
Click to expand...
That's already what happens, the problem comes in the next steps, pursuing legal actions didn't do much and most of the time the purchase is made with a stolen card number
 
Zee said:
Fair warning, this is another generic disgruntled comment about SA that you should probably skip

As a consumer solely the main benefits of 3rd party Player would be a demo, a la carte purchase and maybe a subscription model and so far Spitfire doesn't seem interested in the last two, correct me if i'm wrong but this is what i got from their communications maybe i've missed some posts
So what do i get as a selfish self centered consumer? the demo version of the library (let's for the sake of this argument assume that the 200mb version of the library that is at least 23GB is enough to make a purchase decision) isn't that the same as the free version or freebies that other developers release some times ?
So far i'm only seeing drawbacks to this engine other than the technical limitations but for me personally I'd rather get something that i can work around rather than a brick wall that locks me out solely to discourage some A-hole who got it illegally from using it to make a loop or use it on a track that 4 of his freinds would listen to and say "nice"
Click to expand...
The Lab model requires their own player as do the inexpensive line of $29 libraries not requiring the full version of Kontakt. “Required” is perhaps too strong but they would be difficult to do without one’s own player.

I’ve come to prefer the SF player to Kontakt for most things, just because the larger size of the GUI makes everything more legible. Same is true for the Sine player.
 
hbjdk said:
Isn't it possible to watermark software and then simply give the buyer a serial number once and for all? Then if the software gets spread illegally, the developer checks the watermark to see who spread it.

(But I guess if it was that easy, then that's what the developers would do instead of the current anti-pirate stuff)
Click to expand...

Copy protection is a pain no matter what choices you make.

8dio does something like what you're talking about, and I'm sure they have their technical and buisness reasons.

It's certain worth complaining when something goes wrong. And voting with one's feet when something goes very wrong. I respect that VSL approach works for some people, but it's proven extremely harmful to me as a customer, so I vote with my feet. Conversely, Spitfire's no resale policy doesn't bother me too much, but for others it's a dealbreaker and they'd much prefer dongle. But then, widely pirated ip damages legitimate customers in a number of ways also.

But the discussions around technical feasibility and business model implications are going to be complex and individual to every ip developer. And proprietary.

We're not going to understand the intricacies, but these are market decisions, so I try not to angst too much about it - at least , now that I've got the experience to know what I can live with.
 
jbuhler said:
I’ve come to prefer the SF player to Kontakt for most things, just because the larger size of the GUI makes everything more legible. Same is true for the Sine player.
Click to expand...
Ok i'll give you this one, the GUI size is a big plus but realistically speaking if you're using a vienna setup most of the time you interact with it using midi at least that's how it is after saving your own patches
 
Zee said:
That's already what happens, the problem comes in the next steps, pursuing legal actions didn't do much and most of the time the purchase is made with a stolen card number
Click to expand...
8Dio does that. But I don't think they are as popular as Spitfire. Though they get the same positive/negative feedback. And? you can only use full Kontakt for their products.

Edit: ISM got here first. :)
 
I think there was a small developer on a thread here a while ago talk about how a single fraudulent credit card is used to buy a copy of a lib, put it up on a torrent, and that once this happens sales plummet almost immediately.

So watermarking is a nice idea, but as imperfect as any other solution.

And I have sever issues with (and love for, especially since Insolidus) 8dio also.
 
I like Toontrack's DRM. Only I am limited to two computers. Usually not a problem. You can go online or through their app to remove the authorization from a computer and add another one. Has worked well through many computer switches.
 
Zee said:
Ok i'll give you this one, the GUI size is a big plus but realistically speaking if you're using a vienna setup most of the time you interact with it using midi at least that's how it is after saving your own patches
Click to expand...
Not everyone does. I’d be willing to wager that most don’t. I don’t. Even those who do seem to interact with the GUI frequently. At least when I watch folks with VEP doing composing livestreams there is always an amount of interacting with the library’s GUI.
 
dzilizzi said:
I like Toontrack's DRM. Only I am limited to two computers. Usually not a problem. You can go online or through their app to remove the authorization from a computer and add another one. Has worked well through many computer switches.
Click to expand...
what’s the policy if the computer dies before you can remove the authorizations?
 
jbuhler said:
what’s the policy if the computer dies before you can remove the authorizations?
Click to expand...
could be a different solution but here's how it'd work if i was making the API
The key doesn't live on your computer but on their server, you get the second pair on your system when you login the app checks the API if they two pairs match and then authorizes your setup, you use your web account to request a new key pair which automatically invalidates the old one
 
Zee said:
could be a different solution but here's how it'd work if i was making the API
The key doesn't live on your computer but on their server, you get the second pair on your system when you login the app checks the API if they two pairs match and then authorizes your setup, you use your web account to request a new key pair which automatically invalidates the old one
Click to expand...

What happens if that other computer instead didn't break, but just hasn't been on the internet in a year?

Edit: with typical authentication schemes on the web and in other software, you'd set a timed-life token that will die eventually, regardless of whether it's on the internet. And then periodically it would re-up its lifetime from the server. But that conflicts with the very-strange and backwards way modern composers seem to want to keep their computers off the internet.
 
styledelk said:
What happens if that other computer instead didn't break, but just hasn't been on the internet in a year?
Click to expand...
One of two things either after a while it'l ask for a connection for the periodic update or it'll allow you to continue, depends on the business owner decision
 
styledelk said:
What happens if that other computer instead didn't break, but just hasn't been on the internet in a year?

Edit: with typical authentication schemes on the web and in other software, you'd set a timed-life token that will die eventually, regardless of whether it's on the internet. And then periodically it would re-up its lifetime from the server. But that conflicts with the very-strange and backwards way modern composers seem to want to keep their computers off the internet.
Click to expand...
I could probably check. I have an old computer with Toontrack on it. Just not sure what I did with it.....
 
dzilizzi said:
Go online. You don't have to have access to the computer to remove the authorization. And? I don't know how often it phones home or if it ever does.
Click to expand...
Glad to hear Toontrack has this capability. I think it’s the ilok computer authorizations that are not straightforward to move off a computer that dies since the ordinary way to access authorizations for that computer is from that computer. There may well be a workaround but the ilok authorization program does not tell you how to do it. I’ve not yet had to recover one of these authorizations because I only had given computer authorizations for plugins that allowed multiple authorizations but it has made me leery of using computer authorizations for ilok.
 
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