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SWAM 'All in Bundle' as my one-and-only library: Tell me if I'm wrong.

Thank you, Per. I don't know what an 'EWI' is, so I'm not quite sure what your point is...

Are you saying it will be difficult for me to learn to coordinate all the simultaneous skills/gestures needed to PLAY the SWAM instruments (or comparables) effectively?

Or are you saying it will be worthwhile for someone like me, who does not play actual wind instruments (or bowed string instruments), to invest my time in developing the skill to play these virtual wind and bowed instruments?

I hope it's the latter... =]
Definitely "the latter". I should have said that in my post, I see now.

It takes time to set up, but that's of course not an issue if you have time at hand (and know a bit about how the real instruments are played). To mention one aspect that is easy to forget: for a solo instrument, the relation between the played vibrato and the tempo of the music is an important expression factor. This is overlooked by many sampler libraries. So the first thing I do when setting up SWAM patches is to take away the default binding of vibrato to an LFO and instead bind that CC to "bite" on my EWI. On a normal keyboard, I have not found out how to fix this, but you get halfway by binding press/aftertouch to the vibrato LFO and also to this LFO's speed - and then dial in the musically optimal balance between these two press targets. I have also played my SWAM instrument's default MPE patches from a Roli Seaboard Rise2 and this works well, gliding fingers sideways for vibrato and pressing down for level.
 
I have the complete SWAM set and I am very pleased with them. You don't need to buy them all at once though:

We offer Bundle Completion discounts for our loyal desktop customers who fell in love with SWAM after buying their first instrument and now wish to complete a bundle. Visit the Bundle Completion Paths section on our website to see what is the discounted price of the bundle you’re interested in completing.

That is what I did. I also use a breath controller and edit a lot afterwards.

A piece of software that I find very useful, and have used for years is NTONYX style enhancer. However you should be aware that the company is based in Siberia.
https://ntonyx.com/02_se40_trial.html
 
My online research To-do list:
1. Leap Motion
2. Midipaw
You might want to add "Linnstrument" to your list. This guy made a mind-blowing solo cello demo using it. It's definitely on my list now.


My online research To-do list:
3. MIR
One more thing to check out is the Berlin Studio reverb. It's a similar concept, but has sampled the IR responses for the Teldex stage from each instrument group location. It's less than half the cost of MiR, and sounds sublime with the SWAM Solo Violin.

 
That's where the Unison Anti-phasing setting comes in:

1685686828957.png

In this example from SWAM Brass, you can combine up to 5 instruments to play in unison without them phasing.

From the SWAM Brass manual:

1685687120578.png
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

My impression of Audio Modeling / SWAM keeps getting better and better. I will indeed look into the two alternative library sources mentioned in this thread, but so far "my heart belongs to SWAM." =D
 
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I have SWAM Saxophones and SampleModeling Strings. With Midipaw you can control several CC parameters at the same time very easily, and that makes the instruments SO expressive!

For me, that solution is very effective for solo instruments. I often have more than 5 CC parameters set up in MidiPaw, and if you organize yourself correctly and set up the parameters in a convenient way, you can easily even blend several of those parameters live with one movement. MidiPaw is very powerful.

But I also have samples libraries. Why? Because they are more effective for larger sections. With SampleModeling Strings for example, it would be so hard to play a regular and professional staccato. Samples come from professional players with realistic Round Robins. To keep a regular articulation over several measures, samples are still a necessity IMHO.
Based on your remarks I HAD to Google Midipaw. Ha. Upon first glance, it looks amazing, but also looks like yet another learning curve. I'm up for it, and for all the learning curves because these capabilities are SO POWERFUL. You guys who've been involved for a while might not realize HOW MUCH there is to learn when starting from scratch.

Willingness. Diligence. Patience. Bankroll. I'm on it.
 
Do not get too intimidated by all the parameters - as you learn to play the SWAM instruments the majority of expression and flexibility will come from just mastering the

1. Velocity (defines the attack of the note, and the speed of legato)
2. Expression (defines the dynamics)
3. Vibrato Depth (controls strength of vibrato, but not speed)

If you use these three parameters effectively, you will be able to craft more expressive performances than most people can pull off with samples. Start with these and work your way up. Next thing should be vibrato speed after this.

A breath and bite controller is amazing for this, as you can control dynamics with breath and vibrato depth with bite in real time. It feels way more intuitive than it sounds.
"Demystification" is the key to so many otherwise duanting prospects. I really appreciate your narrowing the focus like this. And yeah, I will have to build the cost of that breath controller into my "SWAM All in BUDGET." =D
 
I have the complete SWAM set and I am very pleased with them. You don't need to buy them all at once though:

We offer Bundle Completion discounts for our loyal desktop customers who fell in love with SWAM after buying their first instrument and now wish to complete a bundle. Visit the Bundle Completion Paths section on our website to see what is the discounted price of the bundle you’re interested in completing.

That is what I did. I also use a breath controller and edit a lot afterwards.

A piece of software that I find very useful, and have used for years is NTONYX style enhancer. However you should be aware that the company is based in Siberia.
https://ntonyx.com/02_se40_trial.html
Your avatar indicates that you're a "new member." That's a fine, helpful, information-packed post for a so-called new member. I'm a "new member," and all I can do is ASK QUESTIONS. Ha.

I just visited Audio Modeling's Bundle Completion discounts per your link. Thanks a lot. I'll be haunting that, and looking for their sales as mentioned on that page.

And I will investigate NTONYX as well. I never thought of anything/anyone other than individual 'political exiles' living in Siberia... I'll bet those harsh conditions lead to some surprising out-of-the-box thinking. Again, thanks for the suggestion.
 
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You might want to add "Linnstrument" to your list. This guy made a mind-blowing solo cello demo using it. It's definitely on my list now.


I saw vids of the Linnstrument while researching my recent keyboard purchase. Very interesting, but my budget is...how do you say(?)...BLOWN! =D
One more thing to check out is the Berlin Studio reverb. It's a similar concept, but has sampled the IR responses for the Teldex stage from each instrument group location. It's less than half the cost of MiR, and sounds sublime with the SWAM Solo Violin.

Ahhh. So MiR is a high-end reverb effect. Thanks for clarifying, and for recommending a less expensive alternative. I will bookmark your recommended Berlin Studio Teldex Stage reverb for future reference.

For now, because of the kind of recordings I'm interested in making, I will probably just apply my typical/general reverb effects to these virtual instruments, along with all other sound sources. I'm not attempting a symphonic ambiance; it's more of a close, small-group setting with a single, relatively simple "room sound."

I much appreciate the insights/suggestions.
 
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Definitely "the latter". I should have said that in my post, I see now.

It takes time to set up, but that's of course not an issue if you have time at hand (and know a bit about how the real instruments are played). To mention one aspect that is easy to forget: for a solo instrument, the relation between the played vibrato and the tempo of the music is an important expression factor. This is overlooked by many sampler libraries. So the first thing I do when setting up SWAM patches is to take away the default binding of vibrato to an LFO and instead bind that CC to "bite" on my EWI. On a normal keyboard, I have not found out how to fix this, but you get halfway by binding press/aftertouch to the vibrato LFO and also to this LFO's speed - and then dial in the musically optimal balance between these two press targets. I have also played my SWAM instrument's default MPE patches from a Roli Seaboard Rise2 and this works well, gliding fingers sideways for vibrato and pressing down for level.
Thank you, Per.
That clarification is really helpful.
I am more and more impatient to begin.
 
I saw vids of the Linnstrument while researching my recent keyboard purchase. Very interesting, but my budget is...how do you say(?)...BLOWN! =D

Ahhh. So MiR is a high-end reverb effect. Thanks for clarifying, and for recommending a less expensive alternative. I will bookmark your recommended Berlin Studio Teldex Stage reverb for future reference.
Just to be clear, they are both high-end convolution reverbs. Berlin Studio has sampled one room: The Teldex Recording stage from every major instrument position. MIR has multiple rooms from which you can choose.

For now, because of the kind of recordings I'm interested in making, I will probably just apply my typical/general reverb effects to these virtual instruments, along with all other sound sources. I'm not attempting a symphonic ambiance; it's more of a close, small-group setting with a single, relatively simple "room sound."
With that in mind, I think you'd be best off not spending money and seeing if your DAW has a built-in convolution reverb and if it does, go download the impulse responses from the Bricasti M7 hardware unit and use those instead. It will still sound really good!

You can get those here:

 
Just to be clear, they are both high-end convolution reverbs. Berlin Studio has sampled one room: The Teldex Recording stage from every major instrument position. MIR has multiple rooms from which you can choose.


With that in mind, I think you'd be best off not spending money and seeing if your DAW has a built-in convolution reverb and if it does, go download the impulse responses from the Bricasti M7 hardware unit and use those instead. It will still sound really good!

You can get those here:

I appreciate the follow-up information. My DAW does have a convolution reverb (which I never use, ha). I will take it more seriously now, thanks to your advice. And thank you for the impulse downloads link, and specifically the Bricasti M7 suggestion.
 
Wow. I hit the jackpot with this thread. You guys are all very helpful and I truly appreciate this level of discourse. This sort of insight. It's valuable as advice, and valuable in terms of sparing me (and anyone reads this) from perhaps making expensive purchases in wrong directions. Your highlighted remark above is my impression of the SWAM instruments, and I LIKE that. I want to learn to play them...AS INSTRUMENTS as you say...but I'm not sure I'll ever have the chops. And that's an important reason for my launching this thread. Thanks.


Another very helpful distinction.


I will seek more demonstrations / videos with that in mind. Also, when I get closer to a decision will absolutely request a free trial.


Point taken, and much appreciated. I have a lot to learn, and now that you guys are expanding my awareness, I have a better idea of where to look next. Thanks to you all.


It's funny. The prices of these libraries are HIGH. If you've been swimming in this pool for a while, I suppose they don't jar you (like the frog slowly coming to a boil, ha). I think we become desensitized—no matter what we're shopping for—once we become accustomed to "the going rate." Whether a library, a car, a house. Once we get used to the "typical price range" we're able to focus only on relative/comparable prices within that range. At least that's what happens to me.

And if you're actually earning decent remuneration with these tools, the price might be more acceptable. But I'm neither used to this market's price range, nor am I earning a dime by using any library. So I'm struggling with Price, and as such, am susceptable to the "Penny wise, pound foolish" tendency. I look at the HIGH cost of the SWAM All in Bundle, and compare it to the EVEN HIGHER cost of assembling the same (or similar) combined library piecemeal. My inclination is to buy the entire bundle to save a few hundred bucks, BUT...as you astutely point out, half of that bundle might not suit my needs... As usual, no easy answers. Thank you.


That's Audio Modeling / SWAM who's planning string sections later this year...? Or do you mean another source?

Thanks for the good wishes. I think I'll have much better "luck" armed with insights gleaned from the helpful comments you and others contribute to this thread. THANK YOU ALL.
Another option for expressive control - GeoShred (on iPad). I'm looking into this as an option to control SWAM and also use the GeoShred instruments in Logic or iPad. You won't get the same depth of expression as some other setup but it may be enough.


 
I bought the bundle and wish I hadnt. They seem more designed for performing than notation. And in my experience my VSL libraries sound much better and realistic. I never use them and wish I could sell them.
 
Thanks! I forgot about this option. :)
The current price for the SWAM bundle is $1400. I am willing to sell it for only $700. You save 50%.
If you are interest, please message me.
BUNDLE SOLD!
 
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Another option for expressive control - GeoShred (on iPad). I'm looking into this as an option to control SWAM and also use the GeoShred instruments in Logic or iPad. You won't get the same depth of expression as some other setup but it may be enough.



Thanks for this. I watched the video on YouTube. Was surprised that only one comment appears after 3 years... If I had an iPad I'd delve further into it, but FWIW, the GeoShred website link in that video's notes no long exists. A bad sign. =O
 
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Theres no demo for swam, correct? i thought there was if i email but it might be another library iim thinking of
 
Well, I bought the bundle. In for a penny, in for a pound sez I. =D

Thanks to everyone here who helped me make this decision. VI-C member Midimaster sold his license to me for a good price, and Audio Modeling made the transfer easy. Without that, I would be waiting to see what Sweetwater and Audio Modeling pricing will look like come Black Friday.

Emanuele at Audio Modeling sent me a two-week trial version of the Bundle, and that overcame any doubts I had. I'm no keyboardist, have no experience with any of the physical instruments portrayed by the All In Bundle, and have limited CC control options at present - just a good expression pedal (my first, a Yamaha FC-7) and the twiddly little joystick controllers on my SL88 keyboard.

Despite those limitations, the sounds I can make with these instruments amazes me. If I "think about a sax player" I naturally start "sounding like a sax player." I'm really surprised, and the ability to add/modify DAW track envelopes for so many CC controlled parameters makes this tool very capable...even before I develop chops or buy a TEControl breath controller.

I know some here don't like SWAM timbre, and I'm sure I'll discover some limitations along the way, but early on I sort of knew these SWAM instruments were 'IT' for me. The CPU load can be crushing, especially on an older Windows PC running a DAW that does not balance multi-core CPU load well (Studio One Pro v4.x) But I'll figure out how to get the most out of my hardware, and perhaps upgrade to Studio One Pro v6.x. Then I'll be in Fat City.
=D) <--- See that parenthesis? That's a Fat City double chin. Heh heh.
 
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