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Superior Drummer 3 - On the fence...

jneebz

Senior Member
So as a pretty happy owner of EZ Drummer, I've had my eye on SD3 for a while now and with a new rock project on the horizon, and 3-year interest-free deal at Sweetwater, I was ready to pull the trigger.

Then I listened to the demos again.

I thought I must be crazy, but all the demos sound like there's a cut around 1.5 - 2.0k. Then I ran across threads here and at GS that discuss lack of higher dynamics in the drum samples. I read the justification for sampling this way, but IMO find it kind of ridiculous, really.

So I guess I'm wondering if people are actually having to layer samples to get punch and crack from the drums? Or have you found a workflow that delivers your drum tones effectively and relatively quickly without that?

Thanks in advance.
 
The new kits don't have the higher velocities triggering full on hard hit strokes like the old ones did. Apparently this was on purpose. I have no idea why they decided to do it this way. There has been a lot of discussion with some defending it, saying you can get what you need with compression, or by layering the rim shot etc. None of those arguments are valid IMO. The new Ayotte kit sounds great as do a few of the others, but I feel like in light of the fact that they sampled 6 kits, much of it is not all that head turning. The new UI is great and for medium rocking to softer stuff the new kits work well. For harder hitting rock I still use the Hit Factory and Allaire SDX. I've been looking at The Rock Foundry SDX by Bob Rock. Those drums sound real good for harder hitting drums. Waiting for a sale on those.
 
i've heard this complaint before.

hasn't been an issue for me. went through a few drum VIs before landing on SD3.

couldn't be happier.
 
I just layer rimshots with regular hits at higher velocities and blend that in, works like a charm. Totally not an issue. The functionality is there and very easy to use, so why not use it. Layer to your heart's content!
Bloody hell! @EvilDragon just posted a non-Kontakt/NI-related comment! Wait, you're actually a musician? Reminds me of the time Barney met Dave Crosby.... :)



EDIT: But seriously, thanks ED for all the invaluable advice!
 
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I find the room not really usable in SD3. too long release for tight rock smack and sounds too sterile.
It would work fine if you like your drums to be on the dry side.
If you're after those compressed rock rooms, its not the best choice, it just sounds like a cavern
you can gate the releases but it won't sound natural.

And yes as others said the hits lack some weight, but thats not a problem depending in what genres you're working

Otherwise its a great library with really awesome sounding shells.
 
You are not crazy - I upgraded to S3 and tried to make myself like it, and kept wondering why I don't like it, and finally realized I simply do not like any of the kits lol
 
You are not crazy - I upgraded to S3 and tried to make myself like it, and kept wondering why I don't like it, and finally realized I simply do not like any of the kits lol

you bought all the kits and didn't like any of them?

that's a huge investment.

i like Music City a lot.

Roots and Sticks is a great set.

depends on your needs.
 
I just layer rimshots with regular hits at higher velocities and blend that in, works like a charm. Totally not an issue. The functionality is there and very easy to use, so why not use it. Layer to your heart's content!
This!
Sometimes I give the regular hit a slow attack to blend out the very first moment .... .
 
you bought all the kits and didn't like any of them?

that's a huge investment.

i like Music City a lot.

Roots and Sticks is a great set.

depends on your needs.
I'm pretty sure he meant SD3 library kits.
 
Yeah I'm talking about the SD3 libraries. In fact, I talked to the guy who programs my drums for me and said ''is this all in my head or do I like the old Superior drummer libraries much better than the new sd3 libraries??" and he laughed and agreed so we're just using SD2
 
i like Music City a lot.
The Nashville expansion for EZ Drummer 2 had some great snares that sat in a mix really well. Do you find that to be true with Music City? Music City is kind of Nashville EZX on steroids from what I can tell?
 
Don't give into GAS! I'm a big fan of Toontrack stuff but the questions I would be asking myself before a purchase are these:

1. What does it do different than what I have?
2. Do I like or need those features?
3. Have I exploited the drum libraries I already have to their full potential?
4. Should I be learning the art of mixing the drum sounds I already have or am I already confident in my mixing skills in this area and thus just want something new for the sake of inspiration?

For me it's easy. I have EZD2- I love the composer tools this has for finding beats and coming up with your own.( SD3 has these features as well)
I also have AD2- I generally like the kits in AD2 better so while EZD2 helps me with the creation process, AD2 helps me with the "sound" I usually like best (not always though, I have used many of the EZD2 kits when they worked).
I have KU11 Ultimate- and haven't even begun to exploit all the Abby Road Kits. I also have Rayzoon and haven't begun to learn all it can do.
I have Slate- and it also has great pre-processed sounds.

The only things I would need/want in SD3 that I don't have are:

1- if I wanted an easy way to record a real drummer and convert it to midi or
2- if I liked the mixer and all it's features better than what I can do in my DAW- but I'm just so used to my DAW and my plugins that I don't see the need for the advanced mixer in SD3 because I feel my DAW is just as, if not more, advanced in that regard.

If I didn't already own what I own then SD3 would be an easy choice and a top contender.
 
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Don't give into GAS! I'm a big fan of Toontrack stuff but the questions I would be asking myself before a purchase are these:

1. What does it do different than what I have?
2. Do I like or need those features?
3. Have I exploited the drum libraries I already have to their full potential?
4. Should I be learning the art of mixing the drum sounds I already have or am I already confident in my mixing skills in this area and thus just want something new for the sake of inspiration?

For me it's easy. I have EZD2- I love the composer tools this has for finding beats and coming up with your own.( SD3 has these features as well)
I also have AD2- I generally like the kits in AD2 better so while EZD2 helps me with the creation process, AD2 helps me with the "sound" I usually like best (not always though, I have used many of the EZD2 kits when they worked).
I have KU11 Ultimate- and haven't even begun to exploit all the Abby Road Kits. I also have Rayzoon and haven't begun to learn all it can do.
I have Slate- and it also has great pre-processed sounds.

The only things I would need/want in SD3 that I don't have are:

1- if I wanted an easy way to record a real drummer and convert it to midi or
2- if I liked the mixer and all it's features better than what I can do in my DAW- but I'm just so used to my DAW and my plugins that I don't see the need for the advanced mixer in SD3 because I feel my DAW is just as, if not more, advanced in that regard.

If I didn't already own what I own then SD2 would be an easy choice and a top contender.
Good thoughts, thanks. I decided to hold off on SD3 for now. EZ2 is going to cover my needs for this particular project I've decided.
 
I just layer rimshots with regular hits at higher velocities and blend that in, works like a charm.

That's exactly how Bill Bruford played his real kit in Yes, King Crimson, etc. Sure worked for him...............

Life imitates art . . . or is that art imitates somethingorother. . . well anyway, I've always programmed SD2/SD3 the same way, and it's always sounded great.
 
I have seen three or four discussions of Superior Drummer 3's response (or lack thereof) to high MIDI velocity values. Is this issue specific to samples made for SD3 (the factory kits and Rock Foundry), or does it also affect SDX's made for Superior Drummer 2? To ask the same question another way, do the older SDX's sound different (less response to dynamics in playing) in SD3 than they do in SD2?

Or am I misunderstanding these discussions altogether? Still on the fence about spending over $200 to upgrade.

Thanks in advance!
 
I have seen three or four discussions of Superior Drummer 3's response (or lack thereof) to high MIDI velocity values. Is this issue specific to samples made for SD3 (the factory kits and Rock Foundry), or does it also affect SDX's made for Superior Drummer 2? To ask the same question another way, do the older SDX's sound different (less response to dynamics in playing) in SD3 than they do in SD2?

Or am I misunderstanding these discussions altogether? Still on the fence about spending over $200 to upgrade.

Thanks in advance!

It's just the new kits that come with SD3. My old SDX's respond like they always did. Also, I pretty sure The Rock Foundry has harder hit samples at the top of the range.
 
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