What's new

Summary Post: Questions concerning Fundraisers and finances of VI-Control

Status
Not open for further replies.

MatFluor

Senior Member
Alright people, as requested, here is a summary post of the issues and questions concerning the Forum.

IMPORTANT: This post serves as summary to make it easier for Frederick to answer the questions as good as he can. It is NOT intended to serve as discussion post where everyone give his opinion. If you see something that is missed, don't hesitate to post it in the offtopic post - and I'll add it here. It is also intended for people not aware of the issues to make it easy to get informed about what happened, instead of reading through 32 pages of posts.

2nd Disclaimer: I focus here on the facts and specifically leave some stuff out, because it either generates unnecessary heat, or it is simple out of place. If you want that, go read the offtopic post here: https://vi-control.net/community/th...erick-russ-founder-of-vi-control-forum.62799/ . IMPORTANT: the first post by Frederick has since been deleted / emptied!
---
Backstory
Another fundraiser has been issued by Frederick to ensure the financial stability of VI-Control. You all have received multiple E-Mail before it started and during it's run. It has already (last fundraiser) been criticized, that the wording of the fundraisers paint a rather dark picture of VI-Controls future.
These concerns were raised once again during this fundraiser.

What happened in the thread that was moved to off-topic (https://vi-control.net/community/th...erick-russ-founder-of-vi-control-forum.62799/ IMPORTANT: the first post by Frederick has since been deleted / emptied!)
The thread started with a post by Frederick, sporting the wording that has been criticized already.
So far, we've raised $2500. It's good but its not enough. And I'll be honest. I'm beginning to worry about our future.
I don't wish to alarm anyone but those who know me also know that I'm a straight shooter. If things continue the way they have, with little or no support, there may a possibility that one day, you may come looking for your forum and it won't be there. And receive an ominous farewell in your email inbox. God forbid.

This wording led to a spark of critique, asking how high the running costs are, how near VI-Control is to the shut-down. Also, questions have been raised concerning the "Premium Membership" option Frederiock mentioned in the forementioned post.
Things got a little out of hand quickly, some dirt has been dug up, question were asked and very little answers have been given as of yet (Mo. 26.06.2017).

Facts a.k.a what we know (REMEMBER: all those concerns have been questioned and are awaiting clearance)

- How expensive the Forum is
Dedicated Server: $150 per month
VI-C Income Taxes $500 per month
VI App: $30 per month
Email $115 per month
VI Office (location is on every email we send): $800 per month
Phones, paypal fees etc: $359
Facebook Advertising: $300

Subtotal: $2254

Salary? (do I even deserve one? Not rhetorical - just being honest: I haven't received income in two months) $2000

Staff (currently volunteers) $0

Total: $4254 per month
--------------

  • The Forum is supported by ads (Cost table for ads: https://vi-control.net/portal/advertising/)
  • Donators and Forum members are unhappy and have been criticizing the business side of VI-Control.
  • Though some digging, one member made the discovery, that the office mentioned in the cost table might be shared with another company. According to Frederick:
  • My office is a separate entity in a suite of offices. It is not connected to my wife's business at all. It is its own entity which happens to be in the same suite of offices.
  • The cost table mentioned things normally not "valid" as costs - like PayPal fees and taxes
  • One Developer specifically mentioned that his company will leave VI-Control and stop buying banner ads if the forum goes to a part-subscription model.
  • The Forum is at the moment a "sole proprietor" model, meaning all income (and expenses) go directly to Frederick
  • The yearly cost for running Vi-Control are $50'000, before donations, upgrades and extra services.
  • Frederick DOES NOT work 45+ hours per week for the forum - that was once due to the migration to a new infrastructure.
  • It has been noted, that amibtious expansion plans should better take place as seperate thing, and not part of the forum.
  • From roughly 14'000 Members, only 150 have donated various amounts.


Speculations:
Then there is the Portal page, which is a separate fee. At it's cheapest, that's about $48/mo. I counted 41 unique ads there = another $1968 a month.
Then there are the vertical banners. I didn't spend a lot of time counting these but I counted a minimum of 9 advertisers. At cheapest it's $80/mo. Another $720 a month.
Then there are the email blasts, $175/pop. There have been about 4 per month on average, so another $700 per month.
Keeping in mind these are lowball estimates - there are no doubt banners/advertisers I've missed, and this assumes the lowest rates are being paid - the total is $5302/mo. All of this information is public and you can verify it yourself.​

  • Server costs have been estimated a bit too high by a few members. High traffick and AJAX-calls were mentioned as cause for such a high traffic.

Question Frederick is asked to answer (some are answered):
  • The cost table mentions an office. Why is an office needed to run an internet Forum?
  • Why is income tax mentioned as expense? Due to this number - one has to consider VI-Control reaping in a lot of revenue
  • Is the Forum a non-profit organisation? Is it for Profit?
    • Is is a sole Proprietorship at the moment.
  • What is the exact income of VI-Control? Considering income tax and banner ads - painting the dark picture - how much loses VI-Control every month? Or how much does it gain?
    • Additional: What are the gross receipts and the net profit of the last fiscal year?
  • Is Frederick talking to people who know about business/accounting/webhosting etc.etc.?
    • Is VI-Control a Cash Cow milked by Frederick? -> According to Frederick:
      Last month alone I put at least 130 hours where I never got paid. The previous month was similar. So if you're thinking that VI is a cash cow, it might be someday, but today, nothing could be further from the truth.
  • What is this Premium membership? What ideas are there?
    • (Broken Link Removed)
  • Is Frederick aware of the federal/state lottery/raffle laws? Will he comply to them in the future?
  • Is any money that has been raised used for personal expenses?
  • Comment by MF: It's a sole proprietor ship and see Fredericks responses in the next post here)
  • Is Frederick taking advantage of proper accounting/taxation now?
  • What about the tax payment on foreign entities?
  • Why is there still a "Premium Membership" button? Where is the Premium Area?
What should we do now?
A lot of ideas have been proposed in the offtopic thread - from cutting down costs over "buying the forum" to more technical approaches. According to this post
To ensure the best answering of our questions - we should let this post here sit for Frederick to answer.


Of course I will develop a detailed & appropriate response. It is the weekend. I will see you all next week. Thanks in advance for your patience.

So - patience and let him answer this properly without ANYONE CHIMING IN HERE. Like this post of course ;) But please, do not respond and keep it clean, so Frederick can immediately focus on the things at hand.

Main Source:
The offtopic thread: https://vi-control.net/community/th...erick-russ-founder-of-vi-control-forum.62799/ IMPORTANT: the first post by Frederick has since been deleted / emptied!

Sincerely,
Matthias
 
Last edited:
Responses from Frederick (summary from https://vi-control.net/community/threads/from-frederick.63066/ IMPORTANT: the first post by Frederick has since been deleted / emptied!)
  • He admits that he has not been listening to member's concerns
  • The Summer fundraiser raised $4200
    • It also will be the last fundraiser unless approved by the community
  • He started VI-Control with his now deceased partner, who handled lot of the financial aspect.
  • After the death of his partner, he decided to go further than just a forum - which might have been an error
  • The idea of a subscription came to mind 3 years ago. With added value and lower cost, he thought it might be a no brainer
  • He never intended a separation of members into two groups
  • He admits adding expenses which should not have been added
  • He ditched the office and uses a PO box from now on.
  • VI-Control is NOT a non-profit (already stated above), and therefore needs to pay taxes and paypal fees for every transaction
  • He invests 30-35 hours / week into VI-Business and he has not been paid for 2 Months - because of holes in adverstising schedules
  • Some of the funds received are used to "put fuel in his car, pay for groceries for the family and pitch in for a mortage" (quoted and pronouns adjusted by MF)
  • The largest expense of VI-C is Frederick, he took $500/week as salary (eq $2000/Month)

Main Source:

Latest (as of 28.06.2017) Thread with response from Frederick: https://vi-control.net/community/threads/from-frederick.63066/ IMPORTANT: the first post by Frederick has since been deleted / emptied!

Sincerely,
Matthias
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom