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Studio room treatment

Discussion in 'Mixing, Post-Production, and Effects' started by nik, Sep 11, 2018.

  1. Nick Batzdorf

    Nick Batzdorf Moderator

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    Well, a friend who moved out of town left me a pair of Snell home speakers with about 15" tall stands. I haven't hooked them up yet, but I will this weekend.

    But I know it works well with the right speakers.
     
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  2. germancomponist

    germancomponist Senior Member

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    Please do what I did and tell me your results.
     
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  3. tmhuud

    tmhuud Brown Belt

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    I'm convinced Nick that you've got something going on their with speakers. ;)
     
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  4. Anders Wall

    Anders Wall 55°28'54"N 13°30'44"E

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    You’ve got some great response already.
    Chiming in with yet another link.
    https://hofa-akustik.de/en/

    I own some of their stuff, and the acoustic curtain looks interesting.

    Best of luck,
    /Anders
     
    nik likes this.
  5. jcrosby

    jcrosby Senior Member

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    Enlighten me.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  6. GtrString

    GtrString Senior Member

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    You can make some clever considerations, like many in the thread have suggested, but Tom here also has a valid counter argument..

     
  7. jcrosby

    jcrosby Senior Member

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    So JXL says isolate your room but don't treat it, Toole says we acclamate to early reflections don't absorb them, Winer says ignore Toole and absorb your sidewalls, Massenburg's design suggests to diffuse your entire room to the point of no discernible ER time, and Bob Katz swears by a reflection free zone.

    Clearly the preference of the listener, (let alone the shape and volume of the room), have no validity.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
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  8. jononotbono

    jononotbono Luke Johnson

    This is a very good book...

    Home Recording Studio: Build it like the Pros by Rod Gervais...



    There are many things to consider when treating a room so it's hard to give concise answers but I made some acoustic panels using 100mm thick rigid Rockwool insulation, encased in timber frames and covered in material. They work wonders for taming mid and high freqs. Of course, if you want to spend money, you can buy ready built stuff. Room size, shape, and more importantly, size and output of studio monitors will depend on how much treatment you may or may not need. Taming Bass is another matter altogether and mass is your friend. Concrete, large air gaps between concrete walls. Let's put it this way, if you have a massive amount of bass in a tiny room, no amount of Fibreglass or insulation is going to do any good. Just my thoughts. I wish I could lie and say, "Yes, definitely cover all your walls and ceilings with Egg Boxes. Will definitely help"... I'm amazed that anybody believes some cardboard is going to do anything but people are weird. Just having a Sofa and some Shelving full of books can work wonders for treating a room (diffusing etc)

    If you wanna tame just high frequencies, some acoustic foam can help but don't go made otherwise your room will sound completely dead. Anyway, I could go on and know JXL doesn't use any treatment so what do I know. It's all personal isn't it. That book is definitely a good read and goes much deeper than just sticking some treatment on a wall! :)

    Probably the best investment someone on a budget can make is Sonarworks Roomcorrection software.

    Here's a photo of my Music Lab with Mid Traps on my walls. Zebra print optional...

    Jono Mixing desk Colour.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
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  9. Tfis

    Tfis Senior Member

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    I did this. I send him the blueprint of the room and after some phonecalls I received detailed instructions what to do (building basstraps, absorber, lower the ceiling, etc.).
    Shitload of work and took me several weekends hours. When I was done (after a year or so), he visited me. We measured the room, found the right positions for the loudspeakers and did some EQ tweaking.

    If you don't have expertise, you should buy it.
     
  10. germancomponist

    germancomponist Senior Member

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    Nick, did you the experiment?
     
  11. wst3

    wst3 my office these days

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    Listener preference i important, as is the purpose of the room. Room geometry and dimensions are very important, but more from the "how do I treat the room to get what I want" aspect.

    (Aside - I'd be somewhat cautious about any advice that starts with "ignore Toole".)

    Toole's comments on early reflections are considered by the vast majority of the professional audio community as correct. I just attended a workshop where the effect of early reflections was demonstrated, this is not pseudo-science, it is how the ear/brain responds to audio. And it is remarkable.

    If the delay is too short you end up with severe coloration. If the delay is too long you end up with discernible echo, but there is a range where you get support. You have to hear it to believe it. And keep in mind, there is no such thing as a free lunch, even within that range some folks may have preferences.

    Beyond that you have to think about the application of the room.

    JXL uses his room as a production space. George M uses his space for mixing and Bob K uses his room for mastering. In the first case keeping the room sonics interesting make sense. In the second and third cases making the room "disappear" makes sense. LEDE works the same way, the idea being that you want to hear what is coming from the loudspeakers without any room effects (which, for the record, is impossible, but still a valid design approach).
     
  12. onebitboy

    onebitboy Member

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    This may of course work well for your particular room, but I'd be wary of presenting this as a universal solution to avoid standing waves. It all depends on your room shape, dimensions and other properties.
     
  13. Nick Batzdorf

    Nick Batzdorf Moderator

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    Straw man argument, i'nit? Nobody's saying your second paragraph isn't true.

    You say Massenburg, Bob Katz, Floyd Toole... and Ethan Winer.

    I say Beethoven, Stravinsky, Mozart, and Batzdorf.
     
  14. germancomponist

    germancomponist Senior Member

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    I had experimented, as I always do, and so I had found out that this works best in my room. Who said that my suggestion is meant as an universal solution???

    Experimenting is my passion in almost every situation, and of course in music production, samplelibraries e.t.c. It never gets boring and more often you can find things out that can not be found in any book.

    And, as a side note: My friend, she is also a composer, also had a terrible sound in her studio. We also experimented there and now the speakers are on the ground and it sounds much better.

    Also in the research one comes to more and more recent knowledge, because one is experimenting, and not because one reads in books, what others have written. It can help, of course, but .... . ;)
     
  15. jononotbono

    jononotbono Luke Johnson

    Cover all your walls and ceiling with Velcro and write music in a Velcro suit. It will give the most flexible amount of listening positions.
     
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  16. Fab

    Fab Senior Member

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    If headphones weren't so uncomfortable...man, I would just do that forever. Acoustics and speakers and all this stuff drives me mad.

    Actually, the apparent contradiction in this area is quite freeing...now I have no excuse for my OCD when moving speakers by 1 millimeter at a time for fear my stereo placement isn't 90.00001 degrees accurate.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018
  17. wst3

    wst3 my office these days

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    Best response in ages!
     
  18. Nick Batzdorf

    Nick Batzdorf Moderator

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    I did now, Gunther.

    Yeah, they sound pretty good that low. More bass, nice and round. And if I go back far enough to be within the tweeters' range, the image is as good as in their normal position.

    The problem is that I need to sit at my desk rather than a few feet behind it, so I couldn't leave them there if I wanted to! But if I had a mastering room, maybe I'd try that.
     
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  19. Nick Batzdorf

    Nick Batzdorf Moderator

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    By the way, those Snell J Type III speakers I posted about above aren't at all bad. They sound a lot like my UREI 809As, only with better imaging (because of where I put them) and not enough bass or bass extension. The bass that's there is tight, however.

    Part of the weaker bass is because I didn't hook them up to the awesome Hafler power amp that's driving the UREIs. And the UREIs have 12" woofers instead of 8", and bigger cabinets (although the Snells are roughly 30" x 16" x 12" - pretty big). But I heard enough to get the basic picture.

    Still, I was expecting hyped living room speakers, and they're not like that.
     
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  20. germancomponist

    germancomponist Senior Member

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    Hi Nick,

    great that you did the test and found out what I found out. Salut my friend!
     
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