What's new

Studio One users, how do you find S1 for big orchestral projects?

Dewdman42

Senior Member
Some macros like that still might be useful. I just barely acquired S1, so I have yet to get into the macro capabilities. The thing I am working on could use midi events or automation to drive the selection of complicated or simple key switching and/or channelizing, and some other nice features related to typical articulation handling. So you could use automation to drive it, or you could use, for example, PC events to drive it, or other types of midi events to drive it...and you could still potentially use macros to make it quick and easy to assign these automation or midi events to the right place in some simple manner. I don't know the macro environment well enough yet to know what is possible there.

What i have now is not even close to being fit for public consumption yet, but I am slowly working on it and eventually it will be. Just wondering if something like this would suddenly make S1 much more articulation friendly?

DP has a similar issue, no articulation management, yet still even some important hollywood guys still swear by DP and they get by without articulation management. I think what I'm workin on would help them too. I even think some Logic and Cubase people might use it due to oddities with the solutions there, but we shall see. If I perceive there is a big enough demand here I might spend more time on it then I have been.
 

chocobitz825

Senior Member
Some macros like that still might be useful. I just barely acquired S1, so I have yet to get into the macro capabilities. The thing I am working on could use midi events or automation to drive the selection of complicated or simple key switching and/or channelizing, and some other nice features related to typical articulation handling. So you could use automation to drive it, or you could use, for example, PC events to drive it, or other types of midi events to drive it...and you could still potentially use macros to make it quick and easy to assign these automation or midi events to the right place in some simple manner. I don't know the macro environment well enough yet to know what is possible there.

What i have now is not even close to being fit for public consumption yet, but I am slowly working on it and eventually it will be. Just wondering if something like this would suddenly make S1 much more articulation friendly?

DP has a similar issue, no articulation management, yet still even some important hollywood guys still swear by DP and they get by without articulation management. I think what I'm workin on would help them too. I even think some Logic and Cubase people might use it due to oddities with the solutions there, but we shall see. If I perceive there is a big enough demand here I might spend more time on it then I have been.
I think keyboard maestro does something similar but i haven’t even begun to touch it. I honestly don’t know where to start. If there was a good vst alternative, I’d love it.

If you’d like to try out the macro I can share it.

I have some set up for CSS, Spitfire Studio Strings, 8DIO century, anthology, and initiate strings, and some guitar instruments as well. Working on a bunch of others still.
 

Dewdman42

Senior Member
don't have any of those so it won't really be of any use, but just curious what approach you took generally speaking.

keyboard Maestro would not be able to do what my VST will do as a VST plugin sits in the midi stream and articulates the midi stream. Keyboard Maestro adds another dimension to what can be done with your macros though...it provides I believe a little more access to GUI elements and ways to loop around through things on the GUI, etc..

S1 also has an undocumented javascript engine that can be used to do everything Macros can do, plus a little more ability to make loops and things like that. I am just now learning about that also, so I can't really say more, but its undocumented and I wouldn't rely on it.
 

chocobitz825

Senior Member
the method is a combination of events.

It copies the note that is intended to start the new articulation
It then transposes the note to the keyswitch location (you set it in the transpose functions to transpose to, for example, C0.)
It sets the length of the note to 1/16
It humanizes the notes position back 0.00.50 (just ahead of the original note position)
and then copies the original Note back to its original position leaving two note. the original note, and the newly created keyswitch note (slightly pushed ahead of the note to trigger properly.)



The main hassle is just creating each keyswitch where you have to adjust the transpose note position and name it. Then setting up the menu structure. its time consuming, but so far effective.
 

Dewdman42

Senior Member
right. The undocumented javascript stuff would provide a place to make an actual GUI, but good luck figuring that out. Also the javascript stuff can read text files, so it would be possible to make JASON or XML files to drive the process if you were to use the javascript approach in S1 rather then Macros. But..unsupported by PreSonus.

Is it possible with the macros to do what you are doing but place the keyswitch itself on another track? Would it be possible to have the macro place PC messages instead of the direct keyswitches? Can macros be used to create automation points?
 

chocobitz825

Senior Member
right. The undocumented javascript stuff would provide a place to make an actual GUI, but good luck figuring that out. Also the javascript stuff can read text files, so it would be possible to make JASON or XML files to drive the process if you were to use the javascript approach in S1 rather then Macros. But..unsupported by PreSonus.

Is it possible with the macros to do what you are doing but place the keyswitch itself on another track? Would it be possible to have the macro place PC messages instead of the direct keyswitches? Can macros be used to create automation points?
I’m still trying to sort that out. It seems like cc automaton is limited via macro. I don’t think there’s a way to set a target track either but I’ll dig a bit more.
 

jbuhler

Senior Member
Odd, I cant replicate that. are you on 4.5.1?
Yes, 4.5.1. But it started as an older project. I went back and set up a new project from scratch and it mostly works if I do it from there. (I say mostly, because it goes back to default arrangement for all instruments if I visit an instrument that hasn't had automation lanes manually added. That doesn't strike me as the way it is supposed to work—ETA: that is, I can't see any particular advantage to this behavior—returning to the default set-up—rather than having lanes default to the previous state of that instrument when it was last edited.)
 

Lukas

Keyboardist / composer
Edit / insert automation points in the music editor is not possible via macros. Insert notes is possible by using the new Fill with notes command (fixed pitch range with min = max). Of course the insert range is pretty limited as you can only fill the whole part, a particular range or between selected notes. Insert program changes is not possible via macros.

All these things could be done in JavaScript (if you know how) but there's no official way to do this so.... only for experimenting and on your own risk :)

Making a custom MIDI VST for easier articulation management sounds like a cool project. But in my opinion everything that is not deeply connected to the editor and capable of reading instrument and track meta data is not that useful when working with many different instruments / articulation. Nice for some tests but not really helpful in practice. I recommend to wait for a clean and powerful solution coming from PreSonus :)
 
Last edited:

chocobitz825

Senior Member
Yes, 4.5.1. But it started as an older project. I went back and set up a new project from scratch and it mostly works if I do it from there. (I say mostly, because it goes back to default arrangement for all instruments if I visit an instrument that hasn't had automation lanes manually added. That doesn't strike me as the way it is supposed to work—ETA: that is, I can't see any particular advantage to this behavior—returning to the default set-up—rather than having lanes default to the previous state of that instrument when it was last edited.)
That is odd. I’ll try and replicate it later. Perhaps someone has noted the same on the presinus forums
 

chocobitz825

Senior Member
Edit / insert automation points in the music editor is not possible via macros. Insert notes is possible by using the new Fill with notes command (fixed pitch range with min = max). Insert program is not possible via macros.

All these things could be done in JavaScript (if you know how) but there's no official way to do this so.... only for experimenting and on your own risk :)
Yeah I’ll stick to macros until something for solid comes along.
 
Last edited:

chocobitz825

Senior Member
For now and for everyone who doesn't know the new MIDI editing macro page:

I actually tried with the fill notes macro first but there was no way to make it as precise as needed for consistent articulation switching. The copy method is more consistent because it references the notes already in the place to place the notes where they need to be. In place of articulation maps I’ve used the drum map as well, but the new interface is not ideal since it doesn’t show note length.
 
Last edited:

Dewdman42

Senior Member
and you can modify the toolbar with your own macros right?

What I do know about the javascript access is that you can specify a particular track to do things to. and there is one javascript command which basically can execute any macro function. Anyway, its not documented and hard to figure out, but I might at least try to figure out a way to make it easier to articulate notes somehow.

but again, I see this as a way of inserting some kind of midi event which is the equivalent of a single cubase expression map. then I will use a VST plugin to translate that into whatever simple or complex keyswitches and channelizing is needed.
 

Lukas

Keyboardist / composer
I actually tried with the fill notes macro first but there was no way to make it as precise as needed for consistent articulation switching. The copy method is more consistent because it references the notes already in the place to place the notes where they need to be. In place of articulation maps I’ve used the drum map as well, but the new interface is not ideal since it doesn’t show nor length.
Yes...true... it's not ideal.

and you can modify the toolbar with your own macros right?
Exactly. You can create your own macros, macro buttons, groups and pages. Since 4.5 you can even build dropdown menus with separators and sub menus (that's what I did when I made the Music Editing page).

What I do know about the javascript access is that you can specify a particular track to do things to.
Yes. You can actually access, insert and modify many objects like tracks, parts, notes. But you have to find out it yourself... it's a hacky thing without any support or guarantee.
 

jbuhler

Senior Member
That is odd. I’ll try and replicate it later. Perhaps someone has noted the same on the presinus forums
I'll add that I got it working for SCS, but then when I added lanes for HZStrings, everything got messed up again, and when I went back to SCS none of the lanes would remain stable. I've asked a question over on the Presonus Forum, though I've never had great luck over there.
 

jbuhler

Senior Member
Send this video to the support including an example .song file (without instruments).
Thanks! ok, submitted a ticket to support with video, but without the .song file since I wasn't certain how best to strip it down to submit it. I'm hoping support can let me know what they need.
 

Lukas

Keyboardist / composer
As you've seen we could not reproduce your issue. So if you want the support (and the developers) to be able to reproduce it you should provide a song file.

How to strip it down:
1) Keep only the two involved instrument tracks
2) Remove unused instruments (there's a new command for that in the instrument rack). In the best case you remove ALL instruments.
3) If it does not work without the instruments try to replicate it with a basic Presence XT patch

That's enough to give them a chance to reproduce the issue.
 
Top Bottom