Studio One users, how do you find S1 for big orchestral projects?

chibear

Active Member
New S1user here. I have a feeling that the multicore issue is a mac thing. I'm gradually ramping up my first large project in S1 on Windows 7 (3930k) and have been keeping an eye on Task Manager as I add tracks. At 40 tracks CPU is at 20% and the load is spread evenly over the odd-number threads. As the project grows it will be interesting to see if and how the even number threads are engaged.

As far as load times, I see little or no difference between S1, DP, or Mixcraft for that matter. IMO Kontakt is the bottleneck no matter what DAW you use.

Awhile ago I tried Jonathan's preset method and it is sweet. Couple that with a routing template ashe suggestred and workflow is going to be slick.
 

PaulieDC

1967 Bizzarini GT 5300 Strada
New S1user here. I have a feeling that the multicore issue is a mac thing. I'm gradually ramping up my first large project in S1 on Windows 7 (3930k) and have been keeping an eye on Task Manager as I add tracks. At 40 tracks CPU is at 20% and the load is spread evenly over the odd-number threads. As the project grows it will be interesting to see if and how the even number threads are engaged.

As far as load times, I see little or no difference between S1, DP, or Mixcraft for that matter. IMO Kontakt is the bottleneck no matter what DAW you use.

Awhile ago I tried Jonathan's preset method and it is sweet. Couple that with a routing template ashe suggestred and workflow is going to be slick.
I just went to Jon’s site and found his article on all the steps to do that, it’s basically a dream come true for studio one users, LOL.
 

spaunsam7

New Member
I've been using Joseph Trapaneze's Pro Tools session import method in S1 ever since the feature became available. It's great and very similar to some of the other methods mentioned here. I definitely agree with others that it gets wonky with those huge track counts.

 

samphony

Senior Member
I've been using Joseph Trapaneze's Pro Tools session import method in S1 ever since the feature became available. It's great and very similar to some of the other methods mentioned here. I definitely agree with others that it gets wonky with those huge track counts.

I find what could be improved is the ability to drag import date to a location of choice. As of now all imported tracks land on the bottom of the tracks list.
 

PaulieDC

1967 Bizzarini GT 5300 Strada
I've been using Joseph Trapaneze's Pro Tools session import method in S1 ever since the feature became available. It's great and very similar to some of the other methods mentioned here. I definitely agree with others that it gets wonky with those huge track counts.

Great! I'll check it out!
 

Vehrka

New Member
Studio One definitely works best for a 'build as you go' composing process - and its workflow is pretty much designed to function that way.

So if you need a massive pre-built template, it isn't the best solution.

I've got around a lot of its limitations by creating a huge collection of instrument presets. I've then organised the presets into folders by instrument group, and also as 'templates'. So I can just open up a 'template' folder, select all and drag the whole lot into the project window, it takes seconds.

I've then created a very simple Macro which names all the channels in the mixer, inserts an EQ preset on all selected tracks and assigns them to a bus. I also use Keyboard Maestro to then trigger the bus name dialogue.

So for example, I can select my Brass tracks, press the key command and they'll all be named, have an EQ preset applied, routed to a new bus with a pop up asking for the bus name. The whole process is instant.

In many ways I find that faster than working with a template.
If you don't mind me asking, how exactly do you set up that type of macro? That seems like it would help a LOT in terms of workflow but unfortunately I'm not very smart when it comes to things like macros.
 

PaulieDC

1967 Bizzarini GT 5300 Strada
If you don't mind me asking, how exactly do you set up that type of macro? That seems like it would help a LOT in terms of workflow but unfortunately I'm not very smart when it comes to things like macros.
Hi Vehrka,

These two vids are pretty good explaining Macros. They aren't about making an instrument preset macro specifically but you'll see how the Macro process works:


 

jonathanwright

Senior Member
If you don't mind me asking, how exactly do you set up that type of macro? That seems like it would help a LOT in terms of workflow but unfortunately I'm not very smart when it comes to things like macros.
Macro's in Studio One are actually reasonably easy to manage once you get the hang of them.

The screenshot below is the macro for naming, adding an EQ preset to a group of selected tracks, then routing them all to a new bus.
  1. Trigger the command to name the mixer channels by their track preset name.
  2. Add the EQ insert. You can choose any plugin and any preset related to that plugin, so it doesn't have to be an EQ. Just click in the 'Arguments' field for a pop-up window.
  3. Trigger the command to assign a bus to the selected tracks.
You can then assign a key command to trigger the Macro, or create a button in the toolbar.

 
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PaulieDC

1967 Bizzarini GT 5300 Strada
Jon, I have a decent amount of training videos from Groove3, MacProVideo and Udemy. All 3 offer tons of audio courses as well as other subjects, and all 3 have DAW-specific courses including Studio One. But NONE of them have the vast amount of info you keep churning out in this forum and your website. If I were you I'd hammer together a "MIDI Orchestration in Studio One 4 Pro" course and get that out there. There is NO course like that, only generic "Editing MIDI in Studio One" that doesn't touch the stuff you know about. We'll eat it up and you'll get properly compensated for your effort and knowledge. Just my $.02. :grin:
 

PaulieDC

1967 Bizzarini GT 5300 Strada
Macro's in Studio One are actually reasonably easy to manage once you get the hang of them.

The screenshot below is the macro for naming, adding an EQ preset to a group of selected tracks, then routing them all to a new bus.
  1. Trigger the command to name the mixer channels by their track preset name.
  2. Add the EQ insert. You can choose any plugin and any preset related to that plugin, so it doesn't have to be an EQ. Just click in the 'Arguments' field for a pop-up window.
  3. Trigger the command to assign a bus to the selected tracks.
You can then assign a key command to trigger the Macro, or create a button in the toolbar.

Jon, I have a decent amount of training videos from Groove3, MacProVideo and Udemy. All 3 offer tons of audio courses as well as other subjects, and all 3 have DAW-specific courses including Studio One. But NONE of them have the vast amount of info you keep churning out in this forum and your website. If I were you I'd hammer together a "MIDI Orchestration in Studio One 4 Pro" course and get that out there. There is NO course like that, only generic "Editing MIDI in Studio One" that doesn't touch the stuff you know about. We'll eat it up and you'll get properly compensated for your effort and knowledge. Just my $.02. :grin:
 

jonathanwright

Senior Member
Jon, I have a decent amount of training videos from Groove3, MacProVideo and Udemy. All 3 offer tons of audio courses as well as other subjects, and all 3 have DAW-specific courses including Studio One. But NONE of them have the vast amount of info you keep churning out in this forum and your website. If I were you I'd hammer together a "MIDI Orchestration in Studio One 4 Pro" course and get that out there. There is NO course like that, only generic "Editing MIDI in Studio One" that doesn't touch the stuff you know about. We'll eat it up and you'll get properly compensated for your effort and knowledge. Just my $.02. :grin:
Glad it's useful @PaulieDC, hopefully I'll get around to something like that one day!
 

Chris Hurst

www.chrishurstmusic.com
@jonathanwright I wonder if you would mind expanding this part of the article a little?

"I recommend a handy little app called Keyboard Maestro on the Mac to automate the process of creating presets.

It takes a little setting up, but means I can open up Kontakt, navigate to a libraries instrument directory and ask Keyboard Maestro to select, save all of the instruments as Studio One presets automatically."

I'm looking into this way of working and anything that saves time is helpful, so I was just wondering if you could flesh out that part of the process a little, if you wouldn't mind?

Many thanks,

Chris
 

Lukas

Keyboardist / composer
That's a really interesting discussion.

Studio One is great for creating orchestral arrangements. Since version 3.5 / 4.0 MIDI editing is really powerful (improved multi track MIDI editing, editor/arrangement sync mode, MIDI filter, legato/adjacent notes tool), disabling tracks, linking tracks and channels (e.g. for multitimbral instruments with multi outs like KONTAKT or HALion Sonic) musicloops/Instrument+FX presets/Song Data Import make it really comfortable to organize instrument templates (even with an instant audio preview if you use musicloops).

But - as jonathan described in his article and in this thread - you should choose the modular approach instead of hundreds / thousands of instrument tracks (at least until PreSonus improves handling this amount of tracks). I switched to this workflow (having a well organized library of instrument presets on my HDD) and I found there are hardly disavantages over the huge template approach. Now I enjoy it to have a song that is not bigger than I need it to be. And dragging a preset from the S1 browsers is not slower than enabling a disabled track.

And as I already said it's really nice to be able to store a short phrase within the instrument preset so if I'm not sure if the preset fits for my current song I just double-click the .musicloop file (which contains the preset, insert FX, a FLAC preview file etc.) to audition it before I even need to load it into the project.

Maybe I could do a video tutorial for all this stuff in the next time...

Hopefully Presonus will update it with more Scoring/Orchestral composer related features that will make it more efficient, productive, and suitable for this type of genre.
Could you list a few examples (without the articulation editor feature... we all know everybody is waiting for it ;)? If PreSonus reads this thread they can't put "Orchestral composer related features" into their ticket database :)

What I personally need most is easier handling of instrument presets like drag'n'drop in the browser (it's possible in the files tab but not in the instrument tab). To move a preset into another folder we currently have to go into the user folder in Explorer/Finder and move it manually. But almost all essential MIDI / composing features I missed in 2016 have been added to Studio One in the last three years.

And I really find it remarkable that I haven't had CPU problems with bigger orchestral projects in Studio One (~ 100 tracks with about 80 KONTAKT instances). And I'm running a i7 from 2011... :D
So I guess many of the users having problems with that haven't checked out the dual latency engine / dropout protection that was introduced in Studio One 3.5. Whenever my song playback starts to crackle I set the dropout protection to a higher value. And due to the dual latency engine you can record a VSTi with a really low latency / buffer size anytime.
 

Dewdman42

Senior Member
The stuff being mentioned on this thread is really interesting! Makes me want to check out Studio One a bit more. The macro facility looks great! How are you guys handling articulation management with S1?
 

Lukas

Keyboardist / composer
How are you guys handling articulation management with S1?
Like everyone did it before Cubase 6 (or 5?) introduced this feature :) Recording or writing keyswitches and controller data into the instrument parts. (Or using them on different tracks)
 

muziksculp

Senior Member
I would like to see more track visibility features in Studio One Pro 4.5 Super important for workflow when working with a very large orchestral template.

Basically creating more scenes I can switch between via Key Switches.

A search by track name is another missing feature, also show all tracks with data, and any other useful track search, and visibility management tools. Plus some more custom colors, and auto color gradations for tracks in a folder, ...etc.
 

PaulieDC

1967 Bizzarini GT 5300 Strada
The stuff being mentioned on this thread is really interesting! Makes me want to check out Studio One a bit more. The macro facility looks great! How are you guys handling articulation management with S1?
After getting back into mixing and audio recording after many years, my first interface in 2014 was PreSonus which came with studio one. The fluidity of the user interface is so awesome I upgraded to Pro became committed for life and I didn’t care about any other DAW. Built-in Melodyne, drag and drop everything, amazing mastering section, two clicks to set up a working effects bus, no dongle, 5 installs per license, you name it. When I saw the number of people jumping from ProTools to studio one, I knew I was on the right track. For audio that is. Then in 2016 the MIDI Orchestration bug bit me HARD and I started exploring that world. Self taught music school really. I started hearing about the limitations of Studio One in that realm but I figured it could be made to work. I owned Notion and when the integration between the 2 appeared in one of the FREE Studio One 3.X upgrades, I was stoked. Then I built a new i9 daw last year (specs below) and when I actually started to USE Studio One, that’s when I discovered how lack of true multi core support became a problem. I open Task Manager and the first core gets hammered to 100% then maybe a second core gets triggered, while the rest idle along. For simple libraries like layout libraries or those that aren’t cpu hogs, you can deal with it. Load up a major patch and problems kick right in and you have to start tweaking block size and all that to try and make it work. This request has been on Presonus’s plate for YEARS in their online request area with over 600 people hitting the Plus sign to agree... it’s the #1 request. Yet they release all this other stuff but don’t address that. For Audio or EDM, it’ll work fine, but big VI projects, no go. Then I tried to install Notion on the new DAW. NOPE, incompatible with i9 and Xeon-based processors. No specific plans to fix that because it requires a total rewrite using a new engine (tech support’s own words). There goes my notation capability that I had previously paid full price for. Then I find out that video support is minimal at best, something I didn’t even think about. Next we find out that templates don’t work all that well (with no multicore how would they), but you can use presets which I do like the concept of, I use them in mixing all the time. So I get the heavy duty Synchron Steinway on sale, pop it on the studio one timeline, and Core #1 maxes out and crackles if I hit a series of fast chords. That’s it, I’m done. It’s too much, I need my environment to work. With much regret I cross-graded to Cubase 10 Pro for $332. That night I honestly felt weird, like I broke off an engagement. Over SOFTWARE, but that’s how good the user experience is with Studio One. But now I’m committing to Cubase and everything is working like it should. Task Manager shows 14 cores flying along happily sharing the load. And the amount of MIDI tutorials and videos for Cubase is crazy. What really surprised me was all these “new features” in Cubase 10... I was familiar with all of them since they have been in Studio One for several years, lol! I swore I’d never leave Studio One but I had no choice. I will still use it for audio work and for all audio needs in my church where I’m head sound guy. But for VI Composing, do your research before you try to commit, Cubase is probably a better way to go. Except for the STUPID dependency on a USB dongle that you have to have plugged in. REALLY? IN 2019? And if you lose it you have to buy a license again? Hello 1994, hey, where’s my external RS-232 5-1/4” floppy drive?? Kudos to PreSonus, Berlin, EastWest and NI for their login-based authentication.
 

robgb

I was young once
Former studio one user here. I thought it was a great DAW, but was constantly having problems with it crashing during launch. Still do. Don't know why. I'm thinking it doesn't like some of my plugins. It seemed to handle big files fine, but it's been a while since I switched to Reaper.
 

jbuhler

Senior Member
Former studio one user here. I thought it was a great DAW, but was constantly having problems with it crashing during launch. Still do. Don't know why. I'm thinking it doesn't like some of my plugins. It seemed to handle big files fine, but it's been a while since I switched to Reaper.
For me, it crashes on close, pretty much every time. Not a big deal, since the file is saved and all. But still a bit curious, since this has been happening for several years, dating back to Studio One 2 (and I've reported it on several occasions).

Recently and a bit more troublesome, it usually takes 3 or 4 launches for it to get through the start up. Usually, it hangs where it tells me that I have midi devices that I've used in the past but are not currently hooked up. Since the last update, the dialogue box doesn't reliably come up, and then I have to force quit and restart, after two or three further launches, the dialogue box will appear and it will then launch.