It's just a passing tone to the C, a bit of tension that pretty quickly resolves. Maybe the fact that it quickly resolves is what makes it stand out?tw, am I the only one pondering about that note in bar 6 where the first violins play a d natural against a d flat in the violas? Obviously it must have been a voluntary decision, but really basically every other note would have fit better in a harmonic sense.
Beautiful job! Thank you for doing this. If I may add some enlightenment, if you haven't seen the orchestration lesson on this very piece it's worth a look. The first of two parts is here.
Steve
Thank you. I don't really hear the hissiness here but I remember noticing it at some point with a different EQ setting. I think it has to do with the fact I am using the lowest dynamic layer, which is otherwise absolutely gorgeous. Probably something for Alex to look into for a future update? It should be easy to fix.This is quite beautifully done! Great tone, dynamics, and general musicality. My only real complaint, no fault of yours, is how hissy the strings are in spots, particularly distracting in headphones. As a matter of personal taste, I'm used to Bernstein conducting, so the tempo here feels rather fast to me, haha. Anyway, great work!
Yeah but everytime I hear that passage I think somebody has played the wrong note... because otherwise the piece is so peaceful and consonantIt's just a passing tone to the C, a bit of tension that pretty quickly resolves. Maybe the fact that it quickly resolves is what makes it stand out?
Much worse imo, look at the B# in the second bar of the Zurückhalten of the D major section. This one I always think it’s a mistake. Actually I performed it very softly in this mock-up.Yeah but everytime I hear that passage I think somebody has played the wrong note... because otherwise the piece is so peaceful and consonant
Ouch you're right... to me anyway what sounds weird is the violin part, the C sharp on the Amin6 harmony more than the other way around. Same goes for that 6th bar....Much worse imo, look at the B# in the second bar of the Zurückhalten of the D major section. This one I always think it’s a mistake. Actually I performed it very softly in this mock-up.
Actually I just played it and it wasn’t this spot that bothered me (the B# is actually a C natural in the harmony). I don’t remember which one was bothering me so much... I’m too much used to it now!Ouch you're right... to me anyway what sounds weird is the violin part, the C sharp on the Amin6 harmony more than the other way around. Same goes for that 6th bar....
The sixth bar is correct, the second C# in the zurückhaltend is not and should be a C-natural, if it is the moment I'm thinking of. (Edited to add: I haven't checked it against the midi file, and Bernard's reply that crossed mine suggests that he used the C-natural, but there is at least one version of the score on imslp that has the first violins playing a C# in this measure.)Ouch you're right... to me anyway what sounds weird is the violin part, the C sharp on the Amin6 harmony more than the other way around. Same goes for that 6th bar....
No, what I meant is that the B# in the celli is enharmonically a C natural, which is part of they harmony. And yes, the first violins are first C# then C natural.The sixth bar is correct, the second C# in the zurückhaltend is not and should be a C-natural, if it is the moment I'm thinking of. (Edited to add: I haven't checked it against the midi file, and Bernard's reply that crossed mine suggests that he used the C-natural, but there is at least one version of the score on imslp that has the first violins playing a C# in this measure.)
Yes, what I'm saying is that there is a version of the score on imslp that has a C# for the C-natural in the violin I part for the second statement and so there is a readily available version of the score with a misprint at the exact point we are discussing.No, what I meant is that the B# in the celli is enharmonically a C natural, which is part of they harmony. And yes, the first violins are first C# then C natural.
I guess this post both delights me -- lovely music and an ambitious, lovingly-executed rendition -- and yet I felt my shoulders slump to think of the hours it takes to get a piece to sound really good, or even half-decent, as a mockup.
Whether it's writing in a situation where some or none or even all of the pre-records will be replaced by live players, it seems to me that producers have utterly lost any ability or even willingness to consider how much better a live version will sound. Consequently, I find that I spend probably 5-10x the time fiddling with the sound of my pieces as I do writing them. And then far too much time wrestling the result back into Finale or something so the parts can be copied etc.
So, well done. The only problem with a mockup is that there's never really an end to it -- one can always balance things better here or there, add or reduce reverb, make a crescendo more or less dramatic, and so on.
Also, not to pick at something that clearly was a labour of love and faithfully executed, but I don't really think that harp is the best choice, as the OP mentioned. Maybe try Spitfire or another one?
Looking at bar 6, if you take the melody notes at that spot and consider them arpeggiated chord notes, it's like a C# 6/7 chord (or a C#13 chord), with an added b9 - except that the b7 actually isn't played. This is not an uncommon way to substitute a G dominant chord leading to a C chord; a so called tritonus substitute. Jazz music is full of that - but wasn't invented in 1901/1902 when he wrote this piece.
Instead of going from a G dominant via a tritonus substitute resolving into a C, the somehow expected C chord is also substituted with a tritonus chord, namely the F#7 which immediately changes to a diminished F#7 chord.
How long would it take you to prepare a newly written piece of this sort for a recording, that is, when you and the orchestral musicians don't know the piece and so would have to rehearse?Trust me, as a conductor I would always rather record with an orchestra! As for the producers... well, I can’t really blame them. Before they had only the piano, so obviously they knew that it was going to be very different with an orchestra (and would often ask for changes while recording). But now it’s since it sounds more and more like real instruments I simply don’t think they can realize how different a real orchestra would be. They simply don’t have the training and experience to do so.
As for the time it took... it was long (over three days) and shows why music like that cannot be composed for films. Too time consuming to get a decent mockup!
It depends on how good the orchestra is. But with a top orchestra and conductor the first reading would be already very good, only very small details would need to be rehearsed. That's if the conductor spends the necessary hours before, building in his mind an extremely strong and detailed idea of the interpretation.How long would it take you to prepare a newly written piece of this sort for a recording, that is, when you and the orchestral musicians don't know the piece and so would have to rehearse?
I think a difficult thing about scoring pieces like this for virtual instruments are that they are not written for the sweet spots of sample libraries. String sections of a good orchestra have access to an almost infinite variety of articulations, whereas the best string libraries are still dealing with comparatively few.
I wouldn't try to analyze functionally this last beat, I see it as mostly non chord tones. But for your information the subV (tritone substitution) kind of exists in traditional harmony. It's the bII and is called the neapolitan sixth (because it's most often in first inversion). The only difference is that it works as a subdominant rather than a dominant so it would still usually be followed by the normal dominant. But even Beethoven would love playing around the expectations of this chord and use it to modulate.Looking at bar 6, if you take the melody notes at that spot and consider them arpeggiated chord notes, it's like a C# 6/7 chord (or a C#13 chord), with an added b9 - except that the b7 actually isn't played. This is not an uncommon way to substitute a G dominant chord leading to a C chord; a so called tritonus substitute. Jazz music is full of that - but wasn't invented in 1901/1902 when he wrote this piece.
Instead of going from a G dominant via a tritonus substitute resolving into a C, the somehow expected C chord is also substituted with a tritonus chord, namely the F#7 which immediately changes to a diminished F#7 chord.
It's stuff like this which makes it interesting to listen to the Adagietto again and again - but if the levels are wrong in this somehow strange spot - the C#13 (b9) chord without a 7 - it will of course sound wrong.
The F#7 which changes from a regular dominant 7 chord to a F# dim 7 also means altering the major third to a minor third - which reflects what he just did before that - he sneaked in a G minor chord just after the G dominant chord. It's composition/orchestration at it's best if you ask me, the work of a genius.