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Strings for a large orchestra. What to do...

Tice

Active Member
Hey everyone!
I'm building a template for a large orchestra (loosely based on Mahler's setup) and I need some advice.
Currently I'm using the rather limited Appassionata patches that come with the VSL special editions. Their orchestral patches are much more elaborate and complete, but they're significantly smaller per section and I'm really looking for a larger sound.
Now I reckon it's inevitable that I need to expand my collection of samples in order to improve this template but I'm unsure what string library I should expand with. I could go for the full appassionata strings, which is a lot of money, but I'm used to VSL's interface and I love working with it. I could go back to the Orchestral strings within the special editions, which sounds significantly smaller, but more realistic and it has far more articulations than the patch I'm now using. Alternatively I could blend the Appassionata with the Orchestral Strings patches, or I could go for a different company's library alltogether. (Keeping in mind that I want it to all feel as though it's coming from the same room)
Currently my template sounds like this: which should give you a feel for the sound I'm going for. I don't want to drown it all in reverb to hide weaknesses in the samples. I'm also composing around the limitations of my strings in this patch which is missing so many articulations.
What are your thoughts?
 
What articulations are you missing in Appassionata?

If the full Appassionata isn't what you're looking for, I think I'd go with Hollywood Strings. They have a great tone, are very cheap, come with a good wealth of articulations and you won't be having a problem with samples being too wet.

Another option, however more expensive, would be LASS. Cinematic Strings 2 are also great for a big string sound, but only the basic bread and butter articulations are covered, so that might not be an option for you.
 
I agree with Jimmy that you might consider Hollywood series, especially if you want a bigger sound and don't want to spend too much. If you do go that route, I would strongly urge you to look at the Diamond version or you won't get a variety of microphone options that would give you the ability to sculpt the sound.

For the money, it's still vastly less than many alternatives. If you are a student there may be other discounts, not only for East West but for Spitfire and other libraries.

You could also get a better sound with LASS, Spitfire, CSS, or any number of alternatives. They are, unfortunately, more expensive, as Jimmy points out.

[note: I have received free products from East West]
 
If you can, I'd wait for a sale on Hollywood Strings. They seem to discount them fairly frequently. If you're someone who likes to tweak libraries, however, I would go with a full Kontakt instrument.
 
Thanks for chipping in everyone!
I've been listening to these libraries. I should note that I don't have full kontakt so a full kontakt library would bring with it the cost of having to get full kontakt. Not ideal.
The LASS library sounded very impressive to me, and seems to be very flexible which is something I look for in any library. They still seem to have a holiday sale on, making them cheaper than Appassionata, but unfortunately I doubt they'll still have that sale going by the time I get the funds together for it. I'm hesitant about Holiwood Strings because I do feel LASS sounds better and I don't want to go cheap first only to need an upgrade again later. It's a pickle...
I'm surprised a little with nobody recommending I stick with VSL and invest in the full Appassionata library instead of LASS. I wonder if there's a reason for that? Or perhaps my original post gave off the impression I'm not open to upgrading to full Appassionata at all. Please keep these posts coming. I have yet to make up my mind!
 
Btw, another thing I'm trying to keep in mind is that I hope to make a template that doesn't sound like every other template.
 
I'm surprised a little with nobody recommending I stick with VSL and invest in the full Appassionata library instead of LASS. I wonder if there's a reason for that?

I have the full Appassionata - also the Synchronized version, which I actually like a bit more than the original one - and I do think it's a good library with obvious strengths, but I personally couldn't use it as my main, or only, library. It really is super fat and big and creamy, which is great when you do need exactly that, but it's bit too much chocolate cake for me to be a "standard" library IMO. Perhaps it's just because I prefer the more focused and detailed sound of smaller ensemble libraries.

My favorite string library is actually probably Cinematic Studio Strings, which is a much smaller ensemble. I think one doesn't need to get too literal with ensemble sizes in sample land, because recordings of really huge numbers of players seem to always come at the cost of clarity, texture and have a kind of a uniform, flat sound. Sample editing takes a toll on these as well - especially the short notes always seem to be a compromise.

At the same time, I think that with samples, one can get away with more moderate section sizes and it will still sound surprisingly huge. The already mentioned Cinematic Studio Strings (as well as the brass from the same line) or Spitfire's Chamber Strings are good examples of that. Similarly, I feel that most of the time, for Woodwinds, solo samples work better than unisono recordings. I rarely use the a2 and a3 instruments from my VSL and Spitfire WW libraries, but the solo ones are all over the place.
 
@Jimmy Hellfire: In this case I'm going specifically for that large sound, hence not using my VSL orchestral strings patches, which have more articulations. The sweeping sound of the appassionatas is very nice for what I'm trying to achieve with this template. CSS seems to stand up to use without additional reverb, which is impressive, and makes them more flexible. They do feel a lot 'smaller' though than the Appassionata.

So many things to consider...
 
The LASS library sounded very impressive to me, and seems to be very flexible which is something I look for in any library. They still seem to have a holiday sale on, making them cheaper than Appassionata, but unfortunately I doubt they'll still have that sale going by the time I get the funds together for it.

I don't have LASS, but I love the sound and it was my first thought as a recommendation.

Also, don't take it as a given, but LASS is one of those libraries that seems to be on perpetual discount, so you may not have to rush it.
 
I made a VSL set using Vienna Instrument Pro and the full Special Edition. Stacking Solo, Chamber, Orchestra and Appassionata strings. Works well for me though it doesn't make a 'huge' sound as stacking libraries sound different than adding real musicians.
Large orchestra strings sounds to me less agile, blurring and rather far away... mostly like LOTR style. HZ strings would work good for that. There isn't much detail needed. Albions would do that too, or the ever lasting flautando sustains.
 
You know, a big part of the size of the strings is how you place and reverb them.

On my first demo tape I had three violins, a viola, and a cello (string quartet + an extra violin). I was stunned at how big a section three passes created.
 
LASS is still great and has nice, large sections. They do need to be EQ'd if you're trying to get the lush Hollywood sound.

Of course, you could just get Hollywood Strings and skip the EQ all together.

Between those two, it's kind of a toss up. They're both exceptionally playable and the section sizes are just about dead even.

For a comprehensive list of section sizes, check this thread! https://vi-control.net/community/threads/string-libraries-complete-list-of-section-sizes.71223/
 
Alright, after a lot of thinking and listening I figured y'all might be curious about my decision.
Well, I found that I really liked both the Appassionata and LASS sounds the most but using a library that not everybody else is using as well weighs heavily in my consideration. And since the prices are not that far apart I'm going for Appassionata. However, it also means I have to wait as I can't spend the required funds right now. What still has me puzzled is the big price difference between regular and synchronized Appassionata, unless they plan to make a separate synchronized Appassionata 2.
While I'm waiting to attain the required funds I'm going to blend in Orchestral Strings from VSL to fill in the missing articulations, but I plan to remove that again once I have the full Appassionata library. I'm not a fan of blending libraries for the same instrument. Given the high cost, it'll be a while before this template thus achieves it's final form.
 
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