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Spitfire Westworld - Winner Announced!

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Smapti

New Member
I'm a relatively new member here (although I lurked for a long time before joining) so feel free to take my opinion with the largest grain of salt you like... but I think two different things are being conflated here. On the one hand, we have subjective taste, and it's clear that a lot of people on VI Control prefer traditional orchestrated scores. That's fine! There's no arguing with taste. On the other hand, though, there is the objective reality of scores that really do exist in the world, and it is a fact that plenty of scores use synthetic/chiptune sounds. (See eg Uncut Gems and It Follows, the latter of which has been very influential.) Now, you may not like these scores, and that is fine of course! But I see a lot of people going further to argue that scores don't usually sound like this and thus a chiptune-style score should not have been picked as the winner -- and that is objectively false. There is plenty of precedent for scores like this; it's just that such music generally doesn't get discussed here (or, when it does, as in the case of Uncut Gems [a score that I like very much], the response is overwhelmingly negative).

In short: VI Control is conservative when it comes to what is considered an "acceptable" score, so be aware that the view here of what constitutes a "normal" score is not the generally accepted view. If you listen to music that includes the many synthesized scores that exist out in the world, this winner is not outside of the norm.
 

poetd

New Member
And frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if they choose to not do something like this again, given all the complaints, attacks, etc., which is quite sad ...

They and the community are bigger than that.

I'm sorry for those who feel disatisfied with the outcome. Genuinely, I hope they heal.

But if they think they've caused any kind of community schism they are sadly deluded.
 

pawelmorytko

Senior Member
Has he though? I personally haven’t seen it here. Most of the anger has been directed at Spitfire.

And I don't read Youtube comments other than replies to my own so. I wouldn’t know.

I think we can all agree that that that would be totally unacceptable.
I've seen his composition be called a joke, shameful, embarrassing, undeserving the win, a troll entry, people saying they feel sorry for the contestants who "actually" took this seriously. Imagine winning a competition and seeing your fellow composers react to your nice little proud moment that way
 

chris massa

Bass Player gone Composer
Perhaps, if there is a next time, Spitfire should restrict those that work in the field or have an IMDB entry. This way old IT guys like me might win.
 

Smapti

New Member
It is obvious if a video has 2000 dislikes in just couple of hours that something is wrong. People were just stunned.

If your view of art is strongly colored by the number and quality of comments on YouTube... then all I can say is that you and I have extremely different views on how art should be judged.
 

Cathbad

Druid
No Cathbad - there isn’t - it shouldn’t be after I’ve explained here a number of times. Rounds of judging by team at SF to narrow the field a few times, then the judges picked their winner and runners up.

they loved the winner - as did I.

that’s really all there is to it. He didn’t break the rules - modifying the clip would mean something like changing the edit.

I actually instructed entrants to do their own mix.

anyway - I can see this is pointless as it’s the same group of people commenting repeatedly, so this is my last word on it.

Yes.... I understand that the judges chose the winner and that you like it. We all know that already. What would be interesting and useful is a few concrete examples of what you liked, and how the judging criteria manifested themselves in the music.

There's a civil discussion here and my curiosity is genuine, not an agenda-loaded request. I think it's a simple, reasonable, polite question not intended to upset. But you seem very insulted, so naturally one wonders what could account for such a disproportionately vexed reaction.
 

dman007

Active Member
I might be wrong, but I thought the terms and conditions stated that the clip was not to be altered?
 

pawelmorytko

Senior Member
His fellow composers by the vast majority have stopped by to congratulate him on the piece and his win.

The rest is just standard internet fare these days. :(
I guess you're right, it's easier to spot all the negative comments on social media rather than the ones saying "congratulations and well done"
 

easyrider

Embracing the Absurd
I might be wrong, but I thought the terms and conditions stated that the clip was not to be altered?

I think this is the binary question at the very core of this debate....the winning composition is always subjective....but did it bend the rules? Did the winning entry defy the terms and conditions....

Thats the bottom line here....all the rest of it is just noise....

If this was a a court room question....it would be did the winner break the terms and conditions....

Yes

No

It really is that simple....
 

easyrider

Embracing the Absurd
Just to add:

If the terms and conditions were not broken in the winning entry then all this energy you are all generating is wasted...Spitfire or the judges could choose any entry they wanted....

So focus in on the terms and conditions...not the winning composition...

If the terms and conditions were broken then the competition is a farce....not because you don’t think the winning composition is good or fits, or anything else...only if the terms and conditions were not adhered to.

Watch bake off.... Brief : make a chocolate cake without cream of any description ...be creative

The winning cake contains cream ...that’s not how competitions work...:2thumbs:
 
Alex mentions Beethoven many times in A Clockwork Orange. Burgess gives us a vivid description of his taste in music. If only all briefs were like this...

The trombones crunched redgold under my bed, and behind my gulliver the trumpets three-wise silverflamed, and there by the door the timps rolling through my guts and out again crunched like candy thunder. Oh, it was wonder of wonders. And then, a bird of like rarest spun heavenmetal, or like silvery wine flowing in a spaceship, gravity all nonsense now, came the violin solo above all the other strings, and those strings were like a cage of silk round my bed. Then flute and oboe bored, like worms of like platinum, into the thick thick toffee gold and silver. I was in such bliss, my brothers.

Does anyone in Westworld mention Gameboys or 8-Bit music, or Mariokart or computer game music? Other than the Westworld park being a kind of computer game, is there any indication in the material that points towards a chiptune association? Not having seen the 3rd season of the show, perhaps you can enlighten me, instead of just a flat contradiction.

About a dozen pages back, the composer gives a clear and concise explanation of why he did what he did; I doubt any explanation I offer will improve on it, much as in thread where a load of Flat Earthers pop out of the woodwork it is hard to go beyond, no, there is no ice wall.
 

thesteelydane

Bunker Samples
You're reaching really hard. It does not work with the scene in any way. It's not "telling the story the visuals don't tell", it's completely disconnected. It's supposed to compliment the visuals that we see. I'm sure a big reason people are being so accepting of it here is because Christian Henson posts here. If you want to see the real consensus, go read the YouTube comments. Which are now disabled, of course. Can't have people expressing themselves
Not really reaching, this is basic film scoring practice. Tell the subtext. Film music is not “supposed” to compliment the visuals, it’s supposed to help tell the story. Sometimes through juxtaposition, by deliberately NOT complimenting the visuals. It’s art, and the creative space it occupies is limitless.

The protagonist is on a drug literally called “genres” which makes him experience the world through changing genres. So I maintain that this score is absolutely telling the all important subtext. There’s nothing more to be said about that.

And...It doesn’t matter what the consensus is, the only thing that matters is that the judges liked it. The fact that the judges are also literally the creators of the show should really put this to bed for good. It doesn’t matter what you or I or anyone else think. It doesn’t matter if you think it doesn’t compliment the visuals. The only people who’s opinion matter liked this, and therefore it won. End of story.
 
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Mike Greene

Mike Greene

Senior Member
Moderator
Thread starter
Gspot: joined today 12:18am

DexiMas: joined today 4:04am
I joined yesterday after the youtube channel did not let me comment.
This is not what the forum is for. This forum is for members (a community that most of us care a lot about) to discuss their thoughts. Positive or negative. But it is not for people to carry on with their grudges from elsewhere. Specifically, if you say you're here from YouTube, well ... my job is to make sure this forum doesn't start resembling the YouTube comments section. ;)

Moreover, I'm not fond of people with anonymous profiles coming in, guns a-blazin'. It's easy to be brave when you're anonymous behind a computer screen, so a polite conversation can turn ugly in an instant. With the damage being done to the forum and the real members, while the anonymous newbie slinks off to wherever he came from.

So as I've said many times (including ... yesterday!), people who have little investment in the forum (anonymous newbies having the least investment of all) are on a much shorter leash.

I'm moving Gspot's and DexiMas's posts to the Drama Zone. No doubt that will be a controversial decision for some, and I'll be the first to admit this may be an overreaction. But I'm serious that I don't want this to become YouTube, so I'm erring on the side of being a very picky doorman. Again, real members can post as always, positive or negative, since they have an understanding of what this community is. This is just about protecting the spirit of the forum from outsiders who join specifically to vent.

If you disagree, please post in this new thread, not here. And for the record, no one from Spitfire has contacted me at all. This is entirely a move for what I believe is best for the forum.
 

ka00

Senior Member
Honestly, to me the most disappointing phenomenon of this whole thing is that people are being lumped into either one camp or another:

- positive, professional, fun-loving,

or another:

- entitled, jealous, conspiracy theorist, unable to have a career in scoring

People aren’t either angels or demons. You can disagree on a point by point basis and realize you still have common ground.

Not everyone who thinks the music is great but doesn’t quite serve the visuals is automatically jealous or believing that the winner must be chums with JJ Abrams.

Not everyone who congratulates David (congratulations, David!) is a spitfire fanboy or just posturing to appear graceful or likeable.

If someone makes a wrong or misguided or ridiculous (in your opinion) point, debate or debunk those specific points, don’t start dividing the world into one camp or another.
 
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