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Spitfire Westworld Competition SPINOFF - Composition Discussion, Advice and Examples

Stefano's entry is bloody awesome! The big guns are coming!


The production is good, but it's not brilliantly spotted - the music is all guns blazing before we've had any real dramatic 'permission' for it. A lot of these entries are just 'here's some cool cinematic music' with no effort to actually read the scene and plot the narrative & character development.
 
This is very good, fits the picture nicely and is well produced etc. However its Zimmer's Batman with a few notes and chords in different places. I feel like, they are going to get hundreds of entries like this.

Its very tricky

If anything this is even harder than Ramin's job, because he can go with what you would expect to hear (for the most part) ie brahms, pulsing synths and string ostinatos. For us in this competition, I feel like to have a chance you've got to do something different, but still familiar. The judges might get so bored of hearing "bwaaaaaa, dg dg dg dg dg dg" that they just immediately discount those entries after a while.

I think the orchestral hits is what makes it sounds like batman-esk, and I suppose I can hear similar progressions. I suppose I don't want to discount due to an artists inspiration, especially since we're all inspired in someway. We really have only some idea of what way they'd like to take this other than "not derived from the existing Westworld score, or any other piece of music." The judges might also be looking for something that fits, rather than is absolutely original but doesn't sit with the scene seen.

The production is good, but it's not brilliantly spotted - the music is all guns blazing before we've had any real dramatic 'permission' for it. A lot of these entries are just 'here's some cool cinematic music' with no effort to actually read the scene and plot the narrative & character development.

I see what you are getting at, it is very big but listening to the making of, they really loved the chance to push a car chase, and they talk about it like it is massive. I assume you are feeling the music is quite 3rd act climax, rather than 2nd. My draw was that it seems to be one of the only ones so far that has great production rather than static sustains or single pulses. There's clear effort to drive the scene and marriage it with music, rather than others which saunter through it.

I suppose this is why the challenge is awesome. It's hard as nails.
 
It's the harmonic movement at the start too - it's just 'there'. Those sorts of progressions and shifts sound odd at the start of that particular scene - the car has started moving and the music is already trying to 'emote' - it sounds like a trailer or the end of a superhero montage.

The line 'I think he's switching genres' is really interesting and SUPER important narratively, but the music here...does nothing. It seems to be more interested in itself than in the narrative.

Same with the first volley of gunfire - that's a proper 'raising the stakes' moment, but the music doesn't react. It could stop, or change tempo, shift harmonically, change instrumentation etc - but it just wallpapers over that section.


The drone missile thing is another example - surely you'd want to really play up that moment when it grows wings and starts to home in on the car, but the music doesn't really do anything here.

One thing he's done very well is shot changes and transitions - it gives the scene much more momentum and energy - the light and shade, like the helicopter shot of the vehicles turning the corner is a good example.
 
Getting back to the actual scoring portion of the contest, I’d be curious to know what struggles people have been having with it, whether it’s style, timing, a particular scene, etc. Maybe we could all help each other out.

For myself, the only issue I’ve had is overthinking my hit points. Trying too hard to make sure every little change in the action is being matched by the music (Well not every scene, but more than I should). I have to constantly take a step back and ask myself if it’s really necessary to do so. It may seem like clever composing, but could actually end up with the adverse effect, and the whole thing becomes disjointed.

I also try to force each section into perfect little (even numbered) measures of 4/4. Though when I get away from it, it’s when the most interesting parts show up!
 
Hit points don't need to be downbeats - I've had a whack at tempo-mapping it and there's loads of hitpoints on weak beats. You can always whack a few 5/4 or 7/8 bars in there. I got plenty!
 
I've never actually scored to picture before now - it's always been imagined scenes and stories - so I'm going to give it a go! Chance of winning, minus several million I'm sure. But it's a good experience and I am enjoying it. Got my basic musical structure and key themes in place for the scene. Now to flesh them out and mix. Hoping to have it done by next week.

Challenges: trying to fit the scene yet also remain true to what makes my music 'mine'. Challenges of timing, tempo, identifying key aspects of the clip and working out how it all hangs together.

Great fun though!


Wayne
 
This is very good, fits the picture nicely and is well produced etc. However its Zimmer's Batman with a few notes and chords in different places. I feel like, they are going to get hundreds of entries like this.
Its very tricky
Exactly.
It is VERY well produced but it's bigger than The Dark Knight...not what is actually needed in that case. Keeping only 15% of the horns would have made this much more of a fit for that chase. Here you keep wondering when Batman or Captain America is going to show up.
But the production and the mix is top notch! Bravo
 
I’d be curious to know what struggles people have been having with it
For me the main struggle was the tempo 'cause "my" hit points aren't equally distant and I wanted to match some melodies. Also, the use of accelerandos to increase the car chase feeling messes with the "real" length of the score, even if you don't overuse it, so I've kind of ignored the bar length at some points.

The other thing was that I wanted to mix an organ and a whistling, and the organ easily overkills everything else while the whistling is just a tiny thing. Sadly the electric guitar collides too much with the organ spectrum, and the three things were meant for the trippy stage, so I have to forget about it.

I'm curious about the main tempo others picked and why they decided to use it.
 
For me the main struggle was the tempo 'cause "my" hit points aren't equally distant and I wanted to match some melodies. Also, the use of accelerandos to increase the car chase feeling messes with the "real" length of the score, even if you don't overuse it, so I've kind of ignored the bar length at some points.

The other thing was that I wanted to mix an organ and a whistling, and the organ easily overkills everything else while the whistling is just a tiny thing. Sadly the electric guitar collides too much with the organ spectrum, and the three things were meant for the trippy stage, so I have to forget about it.

I'm curious about the main tempo others picked and why they decided to use it.

I would say it depends on your sounds and loops that you are using. A simple bass loop can bring alot of character to this scene based on a particular tempo. Then I believe your tempo mapping should be based on that groove and mood. Instinct should always be first, tempo-planning is second.

I always believe that it depends on the groove and mood that a loop or sound can bring, that should determine the tempo. Not the other way around. Mapping your tempos without listening to the true character and mood of your intended loops and sounds can be very counter-productive. But that's just me!
 
For me the main struggle was the tempo 'cause "my" hit points aren't equally distant and I wanted to match some melodies. Also, the use of accelerandos to increase the car chase feeling messes with the "real" length of the score, even if you don't overuse it, so I've kind of ignored the bar length at some points.

The other thing was that I wanted to mix an organ and a whistling, and the organ easily overkills everything else while the whistling is just a tiny thing. Sadly the electric guitar collides too much with the organ spectrum, and the three things were meant for the trippy stage, so I have to forget about it.

I'm curious about the main tempo others picked and why they decided to use it.
I know that my tempo for the first part hovered about the 142 mark, at least until the car interior shots.
 
One complaint I’ve heard several times is that the cars don’t drive very fast. I find that the feeling of fast driving usually comes from quick cuts in editing to give that faster feel. So it’s likely that, like in Djawadi’s version, it was never intended to be a high speed chase. Just a thought.

However, if you are looking to make it seem faster, I've found that not overdoing the tempo is key. Too fast and it actually makes the driving seem slower!
 
I would say it depends on your sounds and loops that you are using. A simple bass loop can bring alot of character to this scene based on a particular tempo. Then I believe your tempo mapping should be based on that groove and mood. Instinct should always be first, tempo-planning is second.

I always believe that it depends on the groove and mood that a loop or sound can bring, that should determine the tempo. Not the other way around. Mapping your tempos without listening to the true character and mood of your intended loops and sounds can be very counter-productive. But that's just me!
Hmm, that's interesting.
I think that's true if you use loops or strong tempo textures 'cause you are looking for that exact sound, but if you don't adapt to the scene rhythms the whole thing falls apart, so I find hard to compose that way while trying to follow a scene.
Writing everything note by note lets you choose when and where things happen in your score, and how long a small step can be, so you can set a variable tempo with hard changes if you like (like a 3/4 melody with a 7/4 bar somewhere, but a 5/4 next time you hear that same melody), and it makes easy to lock into the hit points, but then you can find yourself an 8th apart from the next bar of your melody, and if you follow "your" rhythm you lose the hit point.
In my entry you may notice an 8th missing when the bike enters the scene ;)

I know that my tempo for the first part hovered about the 142 mark, at least until the car interior shots.
I think I settled for 78 with a +-5 range aprox. for the whole thing, but since I "missed" some 8ths here and there...
 
I'm curious about the main tempo others picked and why they decided to use it.
I'm using 175.551 throughout, with a tiny slowdown near the end. I started with 176, because that was the tempo of one of my early reference tracks -- a Terminator cue -- but I found that 175.551 gave me better hits.

I'm going with a very pulse-based electronic score, though. I think if it were orchestra, I'd have used a lower tempo.

EDIT: Also, since people have mentioned tempo differences inside the car vs. outside the car, I guess it's worth noting that while I'm not changing tempo there, I am mostly in 4/4 inside the car and 6/4 + 5/4 outside the car.
 
When I heard about the competition I thought: oh cool that's the job for a certain library... Then I watched the scene and it was from the third season, which is a kind of Blade Runner which has a completely different tone from the previous series. Ok nevermind.

Then Pete sent me his entry and it's already my favourite. It has personality and it reflects the "genre" drug that the character portrait by Aaron Paul took in a previous scene. Yes, it is the job for a certain library and I love his entry because it has PERSONALITY. That's what makes the Mandalorian soundtrack so cool, for example.

 
When I heard about the competition I thought: oh cool that's the job for a certain library... Then I watched the scene and it was from the third season, which is a kind of Blade Runner which has a completely different tone from the previous series. Ok nevermind.

Then Pete sent me his entry and it's already my favourite. It has personality and it reflects the "genre" drug that the character portrait by Aaron Paul took in a previous scene. Yes, it is the job for a certain library and I love his entry because it has PERSONALITY. That's what makes the Mandalorian soundtrack so cool, for example.


Although it might lose a little bit in the intensity department, it’s definitely my favourite as well so far for the same reason. It stands out!
 
I love his entry because it has PERSONALITY. That's what makes the Mandalorian soundtrack so cool, for example.
It indeed has, and it's one of the most enjoyable I've seen so far. Fun to watch (sadly I can't say that about most, but I haven't seen a lot) with ups and downs, and a satisfactory ending.
Sometimes I can't hear the voice, but that's easy to fix and the score is great.
Congrats to Pete!
 
What library are you talking about? I hate all this code.
Agreed. Also I'm guessing that standout entries won't simply rely on using an epic library like Ark 1 etc. I'm sure they'll be swamped with knock off 2 Steps From Hell submissions and I imagine the entries that grab attention will be a little more experimental than that
 
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