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Spitfire Studio Brass

I'm not going to get drawn into creating more little demos to counter what Piet is saying here, as I did before. I'll simply observe that its actually pretty easy to make any sample library sound bad. You find an element that you can expose, say thats quickly moving the modwheel between certain values, and then you just ride that to make it sound as bad as possible. This is clear in the screenshot posted what is going on.

I own quite a few of the other devs libraries for my own interest - theres great stuff in all of them. However I could easily make some examples of them sounding awful. Why would I do that though? It would be incredibly unfair and unrepresentative, and I have a lot of respect for any dev who goes through the incredible amount of hard work to get a product of such complexity across the finish line.

Its a fact that Christian and I are massively involved in the creation of our products. Its a fact that they come out - thanks to a large team of very talented programmers and QA who are all also musicians - with way fewer bugs than they used to when we were a handful of people. We're always aiming of course for zero, but its complex software, and anyone involved in this knows how hard it is to catch everything. We still put out tons of updates and constantly work to improve our products.

Its a shame that so many devs have left VIC. I loved this place before I was a dev, I still enjoy coming here and following whats going on, but its so hard reading stuff presented as fact that is either unfair or simply untrue. I actually spent a week editing and refining stuff for the Ambient Guitars release only a few weeks ago. And yes - I'm not doing this *most* of the time, as I have a ton of other responsibilities, but I still get my hands dirty in all kinds of ways. I love making samples as much as I love making music. I'm not sitting in the clubhouse on the 19th hole drinking gin and tonic.

A key point - I'm still a totally passionate end user of our products, as is Christian. Thats how we started, and thats how it still is. We have really talented people working with us who have undoubtedly helped us up our game across the board.

There is a cognitive dissonance though when you on the one hand get fantastic feedback from triple A list record producers and composers, through to students and keen hobbyists who purely write for pleasure - and then you read that your products are 'absolute utter crap' - believe me I could take the King James cello and make it sound crap. Doesn't mean that the lucky cellist who currently plays it can't make it sound utterly divine!

I'm also absolutely passionate about music education and opportunity for people of all ages to discover music, performing and composing, and so I spend some of my time on that side at the moment.

Not really sure what I hope to achieve by posting this message, probably nothing. I have no desire to muzzle anyone. People have different tastes, and will like the sound of different things, I have absolutely no issue with that. I struggle with misrepresentation and confident announcements of 'fact' that bear no relation to reality.

One thing is for sure. When someone uses one of our products, they are using something that has been lovingly nursed into existence with care and attention and a ton of work by a team of really talented people who work hard to make the products as good as they can. We often bin stuff that isn't up to our standards. We also have a fantastic and dedicated support team that you can communicate with who are a key part of us refining and making our products better, so please do talk with them. It really helps us, which helps you.

I joined VI-C in October 2005. Thats nearly 14 years ago! nuts. Still can't quite manage to tear myself away - and why should I have to? Theres a lot to love about a community of passionate music makers who are also massive geeks like me. I just need to learn the skill of selective reading ;)

Peace out

P
 

Garry

Senior Member
Urgh... another pointless anti-Spitfire thread, destined for the drama zone.

6 Spitfire libraries in, and I'm yet to be disappointed. All excellent quality, all great value.

If I ever have a problem, I go to the Helpdesk, and have never found a group more responsive and helpful, in any industry. Example: I had a problem with loading/saving the ostinatum - contacted the help desk, who were incredibly helpful, and did a ton of things to try to fix it, over a long period; when they were eventually unable to resolve it, they also contacted NI to see if it was a Kontakt issue; then I was passed on to another Spitfire support guy while he went on vacation so that I wouldn't have to start again from scratch; first guy then continued where he left off when he go back from vacation, following up to see how things were without my asking. Eventually, I resolved that it was a weird problem on my computer, nothing to do with Spitfire's software, after which it worked perfectly. The support desk were just glad it was resolved, and not a hint of a snarky, 'we knew it wasn't our fault'. Just glad to help.

Bleating about issues on forums before fully checking out the problem and whether it can be fixed doesn't help anyone. Getting the support you need first, and then posting here to say how you resolved the problem does help others and would be far preferable. If you get poor support, post that too - but in my experience, I doubt you'll get that from Spitfire. But the endless, mindless speculation and negative comments does nothing to help anyone, and just drives away yet another developer, and in this case, I think a developer who demonstrably does FAR more than any other to generate and support a community: LABS, PianoBook, monthly journal, quick tips, creative cribs, charity donations; educational discounts, composer interviews, and many others. This is not a company here to rip you off. It's a company that loves what they do, uses themselves the tools they make, and wants to make the best product they can for a community they feel part of. We as the community have 2 options: we can recognize this, and deal with genuine feedback responsibly in the hope of mutual benefit, or we can childishly score points on an anonymous forum. It's a choice guys, but collectively, these choices have consequences.

I've been down the rabbit hole of getting involved in discussions like this before, and not wanting to go that route again, this will be my only contribution.

But from my perspective, and I'm sure many others, as a parting comment, I'd like to say thank you to @paulthomson, thank you @christianhenson and thank you @Spitfire Team and @SpitfireSupport. Your products have greatly enriched my life. I came into this hobby largely because of your products, and I continue to get many hours of enjoyment through using them, and learning about the craft through the support you generously freely provide.
 
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James H

01001000 01101001
Calling it a "pointless anti-Spitfire thread, destined for the drama zone" when several people (myself included) have bought libraries from this thread is... well drama.

Users asked an opinion and got them. Some they liked, some they didn't. They asked.
They were backed up with examples and detailed descriptions from both sides of the fence.
They detailed the bug reports submitted etc etc.

I'm getting the feeling on here that users can't be disappointed with a purchase if the 'majority' either don't reply or agree? Otherwise it's an attack, moan or drama. If that's the case... I'm out.
 

Parsifal666

I don't even own a DAW, I'm just a troll.
Calling it a "pointless anti-Spitfire thread, destined for the drama zone" when several people (myself included) have bought libraries from this thread is... well drama.

Users asked an opinion and got them. Some they liked, some they didn't. They asked.
They were backed up with examples and detailed descriptions from both sides of the fence.
They detailed the bug reports submitted etc etc.

I'm getting the feeling on here that users can't be disappointed with a purchase if the 'majority' either don't reply or agree? Otherwise it's an attack, moan or drama. If that's the case... I'm out.
My ears were by far the biggest variable in purchasing the Studio Professional. And I was right, it's an excellent library and has provided me with enough inspiration to finish a piece 24 hours after purchasing it. And now I'm starting a whole 'nother piece with woodwind choir and celesta.

I can think of few things (beyond audio of course) that can vouch better for a library than a member's avowal of massive inspiration from that library. At least, for me it would be a great impetus. But hey, à chacun ses goûts.
 
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James H

01001000 01101001
I can think of few things (beyond audio of course) that can vouch better for a library than a member's avowal of massive inspiration from that library. At least, for me it would be a great impetus. But hey,
à chacun ses goûts.
I had to "search with Google" on the last part :)
+1 though
 

AllanH

Senior Member
After a few hours of playing with Studio Brass Pro I'm generally pleased. Especially at the lower/lowest dynamic layer the sampling and instruments are simply stunning. I find the vast majority sounding musical, very easy to play, and beautifully recorded. The high/highest dynamic layer is generally quite fizzy so this is probably what was intended (it makes the highest dynamic layer sound a bit thin)

I found several jarring transitions between dynamic layers (I think that's what I hear) and some legato transitions that are bit suspect. At the same time, as legato generally requires valve changes and "lack of tonguing", there will be what initially may sound as artifacts but is in fact exactly what you would expect. I found several of those and it made me smile.

Interestingly, I found that the shorts require a fair bit of velocity to get to the highest dynamic layer. The programming seemed different from what was expecting, but as this is my first dedicated Spitfire brass library maybe this is how they program them.
 

Lode_Runner

Senior Member
So many devs rightfully scared away from this place.
This statement gets trotted out a lot as a truism (not saying from you personally, Paul Thompson just said it as well and usually it's Ashermusic saying it, although he's still around even if he's no longer technically EastWestLurker). It's always surprising to me as I find VIC far more civil than KVR or GearSlutz. Aside from 8Dio and partially Spitfire I'm not sure which other devs have been scared away. May I please ask who else?
 
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Land of Missing Parts

flibbertigibbet
Aside from 8Dio and partially Spitfire I'm not sure which other devs have been scared away. May I please ask who else?
Cinesamples, EastWest.

I think a lot about the idea of vulnerability these days. The more you create things and present them to others, the less harsh you tend to be on other's creations.

Every one of us who composes has been through the crucible of presenting your music to others. No matter who you are, how tough you like to talk, every one of us is truly vulnerable in that moment. It's universal.

I think it behooves us to remember that when we post our critiques of others. Not that we shouldn't be critical, but that we shouldn't be cynical.
 
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dzilizzi

I just hang around pretending I know something
This thread is not pointless, and absolutely NOT anti-Spitfire. Just because some people say they don't like certain aspects of an instrument - and show the issues, does not make it anti-developer.
I think it is the part where they were saying Spitfire's quality has gone downhill. The discussion about whether or not the library sounds good is one thing because it is a personal preference to sound. But it then goes from I don't like the sound of this library to Spitfire doesn't make anything good anymore and quality is bad. This is the part that is wrong. Many people love this library.

And if we didn't attack people for having an opinion we disagree with, it probably wouldn't get to that point. But that is my opinion. The discussion was very civil for the most part. I've seen worse.
 

jbuhler

Senior Member
Interestingly, I found that the shorts require a fair bit of velocity to get to the highest dynamic layer. The programming seemed different from what was expecting, but as this is my first dedicated Spitfire brass library maybe this is how they program them
The programming on the shorts in particular does differ from SSB.
 

Lode_Runner

Senior Member
Cinesamples, EastWest.
Thanks Land of Missing Parts. I'm not sure about EastWest. Their presence was EastWestLurker and he didn't really leave VIC, he just left EastWest and became Ashermusic. Shame to hear about Cinesamples, yes it appears they haven't posted since 2017. I wonder why they left?
 

Land of Missing Parts

flibbertigibbet
Rightfully? Why - because they don't like hearing people point out problems with their libraries?
Not all feedback is the same. You compose music, and eventually have to submit it to the judgement of others, right? Think about the range of comments you've received and how some are useful and others are outright bruising, personal, or counterproductive. How many times would you be okay with someone on a particular project directing the phrase "so-called professional" toward you in their feedback?
 
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