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Spitfire Solo Strings.. help?

ism

Senior Member
Yes, thank you. I did read the manual though..and I know that the overlays are triggered by velocity, but why they chose a velocity of 9? How you can perform that? you have to have like cloudy super sensitive cat claws to trigger that low velocity, I can´t.. anyways: Did you try with the cello lets say an A minor triad playing up and down over an octave with connected notes? Just curious, I really couldn´t get let that sound anything descent. I mean..can somebody post maybe something where he achieves anything like that? Its sounds maybe funny I know and its not that I normally have problems finding out how a library works. (I mean thats not my first spitfire library...)
I agree that that a velocity of 9 is ridiculously low. Same issue with BDT, I think they must all have super sensitive keyboards at Spitire HQ. But you can go into the instrument in Kontakt and edit the velocity curve up to 20, which helps quite a lot. (Any higher and it will start affecting the legato). I’ve asked spitfire it we might get a way to disable, or somehow scale this in a future update. Actually a standard non-performance patch would be nice to have also. There’s a good discussion of this on the main spitfire thread. But the 30s fix is to adjust the velocity curve.

Hard to I say what your issue with the cello is. Maybe it speed? I find that the legato on the cello is almost but not quite fast enough to do the famous Bach prelude.
 

harmaes

Member
But you can go into the instrument in Kontakt and edit the velocity curve up to 20, which helps quite a lot. (Any higher and it will start affecting the legato). I’ve asked spitfire it we might get a way to disable, or somehow scale this in a future update. Actually a standard non-performance patch would be nice to have also. There’s a good discussion of this on the main spitfire thread. But the 30s fix is to adjust the velocity curve.
I noticed that I can't modify the instrument anymore in Kontakt 6. In Kontakt 5.8.1 I get a crash when opening the editor. Which Kontakt version did you use?
 

ism

Senior Member
Isn't the vibrato on this the one that completely changes the timbre once engaged? I can hear it in the SA legato walkthrough. Seems like once you increase the vibrato, the violin looses focus and you hear more room like if it was a different microphone.
I wouldn’t;t put it that way either, but I do think that the switch to vibrato
I noticed that I can't modify the instrument anymore in Kontakt 6. In Kontakt 5.8.1 I get a crash when opening the editor. Which Kontakt version did you use?
I’m still on K5 - but you don’t need to go into the editor . Spitfire instruments have a tool to let you draw in a velocity curve built right into them.
 

ism

Senior Member
What? Really? Do you mind posting what it sounds like? I thought this was a solo library...Thanks.

Sure, but what specifically are you looking for ... I’ve posted a fair few cello examples already, so what do yo think is missing?


Most sampled cellos aren’t optimized for the baroque, so there’s nothing terribly remarkable about yo-yo mock ups not being a sweet spot. (Don’t buy this library to mock up Yo Yo Ma :) ).
 

harmaes

Member
I’m still on K5 - but you don’t need to go into the editor . Spitfire instruments have a tool to let you draw in a velocity curve built right into them.
Ah indeed, thought you mentioned going into the editor. I've seen the velocity curve editor. So you've drawn a custom one there with a slight increase on the left side?
 

ism

Senior Member
Better advice - Don’t try to mock up Yo Yo Ma. Let Yo Yo Ma be Yo Yo Ma :)

The Blakus cello does a fairly convincing Mock up of Bach’s prelude - but the the expressiveness of this piece, and Baroque compositions in general is in a totally different galaxy in the universe of all possible cello lines. In practice the Blakus doesn’t really do much of anything I want a cello to do - it’s lack of dynamics drives me crazy - except noodling about with Bach.

If and when Spitifre integrates the fast legato samples into the cello legato, I’m sure it will be able to pull off The Bach prelude, but I predict that it still won’t be remotely Baroque.
 
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mventura

Member
Sure, but what specifically are you looking for ... I’ve posted a fair few cello examples already, so what do yo think is missing?


Most sampled cellos aren’t optimized for the baroque, so there’s nothing terribly remarkable about yo-yo mock ups not being a sweet spot. (Don’t buy this library to mock up Yo Yo Ma :) ).
I'd love to hear the cello legato patch playing some fairly fast lines. If you already have that on your soundcloud please point me to that. Thanks!

I hear you on the Yo Yo Ma :). I just want to know what the limitations of the cello legato are before buying.
 

ism

Senior Member
I'd love to hear the cello legato patch playing some fairly fast lines. If you already have that on your soundcloud please point me to that. Thanks!

I hear you on the Yo Yo Ma :). I just want to know what the limitations of the cello legato are before buying.
I can throw together a noodle this afternoon.(But - spoiler - it’s almost, but not not quite fast enough to pull off Bach prelude, so going up to that speed just kind of breaks the instrument )
 

mventura

Member
I can throw together a noodle this afternoon.(But - spoiler - it’s almost, but not not quite fast enough to pull off Bach prelude, so going up to that speed just kind of breaks the instrument )
Thanks so much ism!
 

ism

Senior Member
I'd love to hear the cello legato patch playing some fairly fast lines. If you already have that on your soundcloud please point me to that. Thanks!

I hear you on the Yo Yo Ma :). I just want to know what the limitations of the cello legato are before buying.

Ok so ... caveats abound:

Very, very raw. Just a silly little single take noodle. No great attention to crafting the arcs, except for standard mod wheel (/w performance vibrato script - note that I'm really riding the mod wheel in a more or less idiomatic fashion, otherwise it would sound like a dying cat, you have to craft your own arcs, it does not do this for you). No midi editing whatever. No reverb to cover anything up, just close plus ~40% tree mic (normally I'd add some tail to everything). So, my point is: raw.

And as a 'composition' ... definitely not Bach (except for that bit in the middle that I think I may have ripped off from .. St Matthew's Passion, maybe?). Seriously fun to play though :).


What I am trying to do though is hit the sweet spot of the expressiveness of (reasonably) well crafted arcs, while pushing the tempo to the edge, and then slightly over what the current legatos can handle.


Some of the bumpiness you hear is just from nature of the transitions beteen the tree dynamic layers x 2 vibrato layers, and the way I'm really hitting all of these layers hard - nearly every note shifts between at least two , often 5 or six layers. There would be room to finesse the arc here if you want to smooth it a bit. Or just fix some of the more egregious errors in my playing.

However, some of the bumpiness is from pushing the legato to play just a bit too fast.


Not sure if this counts as "fairly fast". But pending an update with the faster legatos (and the samples being reportedly already there this isn't a completely futile hope) I wouldn't push the instrument any faster that what you hear in this.

What I will say, is that while you would never use this for a Mozart concerto or for something where smoothness of performance is essence of the musicality, for all that this bumpiness arises technically from 'unrealistic' flaws in the scripting, it never breaks frame. That is, it never breaks the illusion that - to my ear - I completely believe this is a cellist playing a cello, and with a great deal of passion and (at times) subtlety - even if they make a few minor technical mistakes in the bowing here and there. Minor technical mistakes on the part of the (imagined) cellist, my ear can forgive. Synthy-ness, and it just falls of a cliff never to return.
 
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mventura

Member
Ok so ... caveats abound:

Very, very raw. Just a silly little single take noodle. No great attention to crafting the arcs, except for standard mod wheel (/w performance vibrato script - note that I'm really riding the mod wheel in a more or less idiomatic fashion, otherwise it would sound like a dying cat, you have to craft your own arcs, it does not do this for you). No midi editing whatever. No reverb to cover anything up, just close plus ~40% tree mic (normally I'd add some tail to everything). So, my point is: raw.

And as a 'composition' ... definitely not Bach (except for that bit in the middle that I think I may have ripped off from .. St Matthew's Passion, maybe?). Seriously fun to play though :)..
Thanks ism! I really appreciate you taking the time to make this and show how it performs when hitting all the layers. I'm gonna go ahead and buy this. I like the tone.

I'm really interested in seeing how this library compares to Chris Hein solo cello and Embertone JB violin. I'll post some tracks comparing the libraries (on a new thread). Note I write by hand so all my tracks will be heavily midi edited. Thanks again!
 

ism

Senior Member
Thanks ism! I really appreciate you taking the time to make this and show how it performs when hitting all the layers. I'm gonna go ahead and buy this. I like the tone.

I'm really interested in seeing how this library compares to Chris Hein solo cello and Embertone JB violin. I'll post some tracks comparing the libraries (on a new thread). Note I write by hand so all my tracks will be heavily midi edited. Thanks again!
Cool - I would suggest though that this is the kind of instrument you need to at least know how to play yourself though, and understand how can craft the arcs. It's not at all like the Joshua Bell - which avoids the issue by having baked in vibrato (unless you like the simulated vib, which I don't) and no dynamics at the note level at all.

I'll have this vibrato script out shortly (or I can privately send you a beta, assuming you're in Logic), which simplifies this process considerably.

And I'm very interested to know how the Chris Hein sweet spot compare. (I just can't get my head around with CH or the Emotion Vl/ Vc instruments from the demos at all).
 

ism

Senior Member
Ah indeed, thought you mentioned going into the editor. I've seen the velocity curve editor. So you've drawn a custom one there with a slight increase on the left side?
Yep, you just bring everything below a velocity of twenty up to nineteen on the far left.
 

mventura

Member
I'll have this vibrato script out shortly (or I can privately send you a beta, assuming you're in Logic), which simplifies this process considerably.
Thanks but I use Notion with Studio One. I'll first try just drawing vibrato curves.
 

StillLife

Senior Member
Don't know whether this is the best thread to post this, but here's my first take on SSoS, in a 'pop/singer-songwriter'-context. All right out of the box, mostly the progressive vib articulations, some spiccato and staccato and some harmonics in the intro; only riding the modwheel while playing, no editing afterwards. Some fx on the vocals and a bit of mastering via EZmix.
It is part of a song I'm working on. Very much work in progress. Bear in mind that each part is recorded in one or two takes, and not quantized. Also: I used a non-typical 'DAW': NI's Maschine. Also: I have very little experience with writing for strings, and with playing strings on the keyboard. I tend to just do what I think sounds nice.
I still wanted to post this, to let you hear what this lib can do right out of the box, when you just want to make music. I am very happy with it!
Piano is also a Wishlist buy: the Felt from OA Toolkit. Between the piano and my voices: just SSoS.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/our-man-other-men-v1-mp3.17522/][/AUDIOPLUS]
 

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jaketanner

Senior Member
I also find it difficult to cope with the rebowings. They are quite pronounced and seem to come quite early in the samples. It makes it somewhat difficult (I find) to write slower passages. Not sure if there is a way to control them though.
I have been noticing this exact same thing. Not sure if this is a script issue, or if this is how an actual live player would reboot based off the dynamics, however if there are many people that notice the rebowing too soon, then maybe it's something else. At lower dynamics, it happens less frequent for sure, but at full dynamics, for me, it happens like every 1-2 seconds..especially with the viola as well.
 

jbuhler

Senior Member
Since folks seem interested in the capabilities of this library...

I did a short sketch to try out some of the elements of the virtuosic violin shortly after the Total Performance patch was released and I revisited it earlier tonight to add some more demonstration elements (a few quick runs, lyrical playing in another register). This is basically the exposition of a short concerto movement, and it is accompanied with the ensemble patch from SCS and a woodwind patch from Masse. No reverb or any other processing. All three mics on the violin (as pictured).

SSoSViolin.jpg

The dynamics and vibrato could use a little more attention to attenuate a bit more the whiny quality in some of the half step legatos and maybe a little EQ. But I think those ricochets sound pretty good.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/totalperformancetest-mp3.17525/][/AUDIOPLUS]

Edited to add: And here is the violin alone.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/totalperformancetestviolinalone-mp3.17526/][/AUDIOPLUS]
 

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Guy Rowland

Senior Member
This is going to be a helpful thread for me, thanks all.

I seem to have a messed up GUI in K5 standalone when pressing the Spitfire Spanner. Anyone know what this is about?



(Lovely sounding strings in that song, Still Life.)
 
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