Spitfire Keyswitching…I Just Don’t Get It.

Discussion in 'SAMPLE Talk' started by Prockamanisc, Feb 15, 2016.

  1. Prockamanisc

    Prockamanisc Senior Member

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    New Orleans
    I’m trying hard to customize my Mural library to be set up with the keyswitches that I meticulously planned out with my VSL library. By all accounts, I should be able to do this, and do it fairly easily. Here’s a description of what I do, and what goes wrong:



    I load up 3 patches (Legato, Core, and Decorative, heretofore called LEG, COR, and DEC) into a Kontakt instance, changing all of their channels to MIDI Ch. 1. Then I switch them all to “Shared Keyswitching”.



    I’d like to put Legato on C0, so I go to LEG, ctrl-click on the first legato patch in the staff, then hit “reset”, click to set it to KS, click Activate, then I play C0 on my keyboard (even though it’s already set to C0). I test it out on my keyboard, and it sounds fine. Moving on…



    I’d like to put the Long patch from COR as my D0 keyswitch, so I ctrl-click, select “by KS”, Activate, then hit D0 on my keyboard. Suddenly, all of my blue notes from my Kontakt keyboard are gone. I test out the patch, and I can heaer the Long patch, but I also hear a Tremolo patch, and I can see that there is a signal coming out of the DEC instance. I see that the 180 measured tremolo is highlighted. I ctrl-click, etc., and find that its KS it set to C0. I’m confused as to why it would play when I hit D0, but whatever. I hit “enable” to disable it, and I close the articulation switcher.



    Now I hit C0 and…nothing happens. It doesn’t change back to the Legato patch, it merely switches to an empty note on the DEC staff. I hit D0, it switches back to the 180 measured tremolo. What am I missing? How do I do this?
     
  2. Jurek

    Jurek New Member

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    As soon as you´re in Shared Keyswitch Mode, the Keyswitches are mapped out automatically. Do not use ctrl-click on certain patches to change a Keyswitch.

    Instead use the little keyboard in the left&down corner to move the Keyswitches around (drag left/right).
     
  3. Jaybee

    Jaybee Active Member

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    pdub likes this.
  4. OP
    OP
    Prockamanisc

    Prockamanisc Senior Member

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    I'm trying that, and either A) nothing happens, or B) the entire keyswitch section gets moved around. Am I missing something?
     
  5. Vastman

    Vastman we make the future

    Thanks for the link, Jaybee... I must admit... I find the GUI ridiculously cryptic, dinky, unreadable and it puts me off even trying to use it. Love the sounds (have all albions and several others) but in a day when so many understandable and readable GUIs exist, it is disheartening...the ostinatum gen??? can barely read the darn thing... it's an awesomely powerful JOKE!

    I've read comments that it's sleek and powerful... you can add inscrutable and ridiculously challenging to use to that list. I'm not the brightest bulb but have NO problem with other GUIs...

    Anyway... next time I'll try and wack Blake's excellent post into my brain...reading thru his post, it's obviously very elaborate... geared to the pros... so maybe once ya get it it's amazing. However, just looking at their velocity range...Renegade has taken a fresh look at that and displays it so it's an intuitive process. Orange Tree and Orchestral Essentials also are a lot more graphically discernible.

    Needless to say, I've rummaged thru this issue on the forum before and don't have much hope it'll change so I'll just try and learn enough to do the little I do...
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2016
  6. Jurek

    Jurek New Member

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    Yeah, that´s what is supposed to happen. But the keyswitch sections can overlap each other so you can place single articulation patches next to each other.
    I´m not sure if you can still set different keyswitches for articulations by ctrl-clicking as soon as you are in shared keyswitch mode.
     
  7. Guy Rowland

    Guy Rowland Senior Member

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    I too was deeply confused. Apparently to use your own keyswitches, you need to go into CC mode, not keyswitch, and that does seem to work.
     
  8. nas

    nas Active Member

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    Jordan / Toronto
    This is because Spitfire has created the UACC standard in an attempt to unify key switches across V.I's. It uses CC 32 and another number to select the articultion.
     
  9. OP
    OP
    Prockamanisc

    Prockamanisc Senior Member

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    New Orleans
    I'm still flat out lost, and also at wit's end about this. I've spent a week corresponding with Spitfire themselves and I'm still in the dark. Does the UACC require an iPad? I don't have one at the moment. I bought Sable a year and a half ago and had no idea how to use it. I've used one song with one patch, because that's all I've been able to figure out so far.

    Hitting Shared Keyswitches does extend the range of my keyswitches, but it does not allow me to modify it any further. No amount of right-clicking, dragging, etc. has changed this for me.

    All that I want to do is to have each instrument on a single track with all of the articulations I use customized to the keyswitches of my choice. I

    t makes intuitive sense that (given the immense and elaborate amount of options for customizations that Spitfire offers) I should be able to make this happen. This is a standard amongst libraries today.

    I believe their claims when they say that they're trying to create the most comprehensive and detailed set of tools. I just think that either:
    A) the vehicle through which they are releasing these tools is flawed and/or incomplete, or
    B) the method through which they are teaching these tools to their users (including this one, who has spent over $3,000 on their products) is either fractured, esoteric, hidden beneath a site upgrade, or impossible to understand, or
    C) I'm a complete moron and I don't understand concepts that easily.

    Sure, C is probably half true (meaning I'm an incomplete moron), but I think A and B are both true as well.
     
  10. NickH_UK

    NickH_UK New Member

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    Which DAW do you use? In Cubase you could use Expression maps which allows you to retain the default key switching in the library and choose your own keys to trigger the articulations. It also means you can keep keyswitching options the same or very similar across different libraries and avoids you having to reassign articulations in every spitfire patch.

    I've also used Transmidifier as a third party switcher in the past and I know there are now other options that I'm sure other users will advise on.

    Incidentally I use the Spitfire UACC system which on the whole works very well.

    Nick
     
  11. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon KSP Wizard

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    This is why Spitfire offers individual articulations as separate NKIs... You can fill your Kontakt instance with this and utilize a multiscript (for example, Orange Tree Samples Mind Control) for switching the articulations however you like.
     
  12. Ryan

    Ryan Senior Member

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    I've used a lot of time and energi on the keyswithing with UACC. Still not perfect :) but nearly.
     
    JohnG likes this.
  13. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon KSP Wizard

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    Croatia
    There is an explanation for this. Virtual keyboard in Kontakt can only show the mapping for the currently selected instrument (which, by default, is the topmost one - the first you loaded). When you use a shared KS to switch to an articulation from other palletes than the one that's loaded on top (which, in your case, would be the legato palette, right?), Kontakt doesn't automatically switch the instrument selection to the palette that actually got selected (because there is no way to do that in Kontakt's scripting). This is why your blue keys go away - there is no way to communicate between multiple NKIs, so there's no way for the first NKI to know the mapping of the second, third, and so on.

    This is not Spitfire's fault.

    You will see your blue keys when you select the instrument to which articulation you have switched to using shared KS. Try it.
     
  14. PMortise

    PMortise Active Member

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    I like the UACC idea and "Locked to UACC" has been working well enough for me, but you can't layer articulations with it so I've been trying to get "Locked to UACC KS" to work. Has anyone figured that out? If so, please share. Spitfire's documentation on that doesn't say much, and I've looked at what Blake's Blog has to say on it, but overlaying the keyswitch's notes on the piano roll isn't working for me.
     

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