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Spitfire - Hans Zimmer Strings 24 Hours Left! ENDING Tuesday 5th June 23:59 BST

Mateo Pascual said:
This is also what I think. Two different composers using the exact same tools will create different music. And this library is no exception. I don't think 99% of people interested in HZS will use it as their only string library anyway, so it is more about adding new options to an already existing/always expanding template.
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It's just a tool at the end of the day, but a nice one. Just because you have a gold plated, bespoke pencil won't make you Shakespeare though. It all comes down to how you use it. The only similarity we're all buying into here though is that we all get that beautiful airy Air 'air' - which you simply can't reproduce any other way.
 
windyweekend said:
It's just a tool at the end of the day, but a nice one. Just because you have a gold plated, bespoke pencil won't make you Shakespeare though. It all comes down to how you use it. The only similarity we're all buying into here though is that we all get that beautiful airy Air 'air' - which you simply can't reproduce any other way.
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The last of which makes things sooo tricky during the mixdown...I can't count how many times I'd finish a composition, listen back, and every time the Albion "Air-baked" reverb would make those specific instruments sound like they were further away than the other, non-roomy instruments.

I'd rather NOT have that AIR sound and have the choice to add the IR I want, but that's just me. Granted, I do think sketches made solely with the abovementioned Air-y instruments sound really good.
 
windyweekend said:
Just because you have a gold plated, bespoke pencil won't make you Shakespeare though
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I've seen this sentiment expressed over and over and I totally disagree with it. Not picking on you in particular, but I keep reading it "Composer X can make a bucket of nails sound like great music." If that's the case, why do many of the most widely admired composers in Hollywood buy new samples?

When I started, electronic music sounded awful -- samples were terrible, really; extremely limited in the articulations they could produce, and many of the sounds themselves are / were thin or soulless. No matter how much time you lavished on them they could only execute a limited number of ideas, and those poorly.

And the thing is -- if you work in media, the approval process means that you're stuck with the limits of your mockups to a great extent. Unless you're John Williams.

Nearly every cue I write has to be auditioned by someone, often a lot of someones, and if it sounds unconvincing, it gets the "I just don't know..." "not sure...." and I have to rewrite it.

And it's not just that, feeble samples affect my creative side too. Listening to work I did 10 years ago or more, I hear myself constantly disguising it with orchestration tricks to mask the shortcomings of the samples or synths. Still do it, really, though things sound infinitely better. I'm working on something right now and even with the 10,000 samples I have I still can't execute what a 26 person orchestra can do.

Why buy anything new at all?

What I'd love is a REALLY compelling set of samples so that I can actually write a solo line that is even 40% as good as the real thing. A good cellist or oboe player or anything, really, can make you feel something valid and non-trivial, whereas most solo samples just can't quite get there.

Simplicity and boldness with a single idea sometimes says more than a full orchestra, but weak samples can't execute that.

Great samples won't make you Beethoven or Eliot Goldenthal, no, but they can open doors, creatively and professionally.
 
JohnG said:
Great samples won't make you Beethoven or Eliot Goldenthal, no, but they can open doors, creatively and professionally.
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They can also be profoundly inspiring. I actually sketched an entire symphony with just Bernard Herrmann Orchestral Toolkit, the Summer it came out. It was that impactful on me.

I mean, the symphony sucked, but that's another story I (lucky for everyone) won't tell.
 
JohnG said:
I keep reading it "Composer X can make a bucket of nails sound like great music." If that's the case, why do many of the most widely admired composers in Hollywood buy new samples?

And the thing is -- if you work in media, the approval process means that you're stuck with the limits of your mockups to a great extent. Unless you're John Williams.
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I totally agree with you that the quality of the samples makes a huge difference (otherwise I wouldn't be here and bought this), but at the end of the day if you're not extracting/creating the right emotion from the music with a decent melody then it doesn't matter how good the samples or instruments are. I sat through a symphony recently and even though the players were fantastic performers, the whole thing felt like an emotional clusterf to me. Didn't resonate, sounded cacophonous, and actually drained me (I'm not going to mention the composer else I'll be inviting arrows from every direction). Conversely I recently heard Max Richter's taboo theme, which I (and even my kids) found infinitely more emotive. Nothing but a single (very simple) melody on a piano. The closer to reality we can get the better we'll sound and the happier our Directors will be, but you can't beat a good simple melody if you ask me.
 
windyweekend said:
It's just a tool at the end of the day, but a nice one. Just because you have a gold plated, bespoke pencil won't make you Shakespeare though. It all comes down to how you use it. The only similarity we're all buying into here though is that we all get that beautiful airy Air 'air' - which you simply can't reproduce any other way.
Click to expand...

Yes :) that's for sure, and the reason Tundra was an insta-buy for me. That was taking into account I don't have much use for those softer articulations, but I really love that library and brings something new to the table. The soft patches in HZS demos sound lovely as well, but again, not something I would use all the time. So I'm waiting for more walkthroughs that showcase other areas of the library, especially one with the legatos and very curious also about the different mic positions because I hear a lot of room in the demos. I know, when you have a great room you want the sound of it, but there is probably a bit too much for my taste. Would be great to know how much of it can be fine tuned with the mics options.
 
Off topic slightly, but I think we have already landed in the realm of "almost the real thing". We have just got so much more picky and spoilt. I remember firing up my JX3P and playing the String pad and being blown away back in 1983, then my jaw dropping at the Strings my JV880 could muster.

But none of these had much more than "Strings Arco" or "String Shorts". And mic positions...?

Sure there is a long way to go to get the vibrancy of a [good] real orchestra, but its definitely enough to get your ideas across, if not good enough for the final cut.

Listen to some 1970s orchestral recordings, especially those Pop cover discs, the production was pretty ropey and some of the playing rather mushy. Some of them even sound like bad samples.

If you have ever tried recording a demo on a 4 track cassette recorder, using a cheap mixer, one rack FX unit, a couple of stomp boxes and your mums hifi speakers. Anything else is pure gold!

By the way this is a very bold product, not for me, but thats only because I have to try to put a lid on the GBs of sample data I have accrued and I just cannot fit any more drives!!
 
procreative said:
Off topic slightly, but I think we have already landed in the realm of "almost the real thing". We have just got so much more picky and spoilt. I remember firing up my JX3P and playing the String pad and being blown away back in 1983, then my jaw dropping at the Strings my JV880 could muster.

But none of these had much more than "Strings Arco" or "String Shorts". And mic positions...?

Sure there is a long way to go to get the vibrancy of a [good] real orchestra, but its definitely enough to get your ideas across, if not good enough for the final cut.

Listen to some 1970s orchestral recordings, especially those Pop cover discs, the production was pretty ropey and some of the playing rather mushy. Some of them even sound like bad samples.

If you have ever tried recording a demo on a 4 track cassette recorder, using a cheap mixer, one rack FX unit, a couple of stomp boxes and your mums hifi speakers. Anything else is pure gold!

By the way this is a very bold product, not for me, but thats only because I have to try to put a lid on the GBs of sample data I have accrued and I just cannot fit any more drives!!
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So spot on. The 4 track thing always comes back to my mind. I remember spending weeks bouncing and rebouncing just to get to 16 tracks. When I got my hands on Steinberg Pro 24 and an Atari ST I thought I'd been given the keys to the kingdom. Got to be so grateful for what we have to play with nowadays.
 
windyweekend said:
So spot on. The 4 track thing always comes back to my mind. I remember spending weeks bouncing and rebouncing just to get to 16 tracks. When I got my hands on Steinberg Pro 24 and an Atari ST I thought I'd been given the keys to the kingdom. Got to be so grateful for what we have to play with nowadays.
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My first 4 track was a crappy Vestax thing, then I thought I had arrived when I got a Yamaha one that ran double speed for better quality. Using studios with 8, 16 then 24 tracks seemed great, then came the messing with SMPTE and Tape Stripes to get the Midi gear to sync (half the time it didn't sync right buggering the mixdown).
 
I started out with Finale Notepad, and then GPO. I still have fond memories of watching "Amadeus" then getting turned onto Wagner...shortly after I discovered the (FREE!) Notepad and was impressed by the sound.

These days, after EW, SF and CH...doesn't sound so good lol! But it was an inspired, hopeful, fun time.
 
I don't see any portamento arts listed. I'm sure it's because recording portamento with 60 violins, etc. would render it useless!
I do wish it was available for the smaller (20 section) sizes.
 
Mateo Pascual said:
Yes :) that's for sure, and the reason Tundra was an insta-buy for me. That was taking into account I don't have much use for those softer articulations, but I really love that library and brings something new to the table. The soft patches in HZS demos sound lovely as well, but again, not something I would use all the time. So I'm waiting for more walkthroughs that showcase other areas of the library, especially one with the legatos and very curious also about the different mic positions because I hear a lot of room in the demos. I know, when you have a great room you want the sound of it, but there is probably a bit too much for my taste. Would be great to know how much of it can be fine tuned with the mics options.
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Have you checked out EVO III? You might like it.
 
artomatic said:
I don't see any portamento arts listed. I'm sure it's because recording portamento with 60 violins, etc. would render it useless!
I do wish it was available for the smaller (20 section) sizes.
Click to expand...
Wish it was there for the big sections as well. Think it would have sounded immense if they could have pulled it off.
 
Mateo Pascual said:
Yes, I haven't got any of the EVO series yet, but Evo III looks very interesting indeed. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Whatever you do, don't get stuck with both Evo 1 AND 2, one or the other is fine. I bought both and now feel it was a bit overkill.

They're really good libraries...but I'd mostly recommend 3 because of the evolutions. Plus, 4 is all woodwinds and gives a writer something different (in an inspiring way) to work with, so that's one to consider as well.
 
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