Spitfire BBC Symphonic Orchestra vs VSL CUBE Full library Black Friday offer
- Thread starter Jean Phi
- Start date
Well maybe not everything. Except in voice leading. He was right about everything in voice leading.
(Huron's books make that a remarkably precise scientifically claim).
Zero&One
Senior Member
Your stuff is one of the main reasons I got into VSL. Always top class, always a good listen and I learn something from them every time. Class act.
Those comments are the reason I left this thread. I expected more, not from their dull uninspiring music, but as a fellow musician.
Dear Villain
Senior Member
Thank you so much for your kind words. This is one of the nicest things I've read and encourages me to keep doing what I'm doing. I hope you are enjoying your experiences using VSL as well.
Cheers!
Dave
Am I one of those dull and uninspiring composers that more was expected from? So the fact that I find the VSL sound off-putting (as opposed to the spirit of the composers using it) and have only been convinced by it on rare occasions means that I'm fair game for that kind of nasty assessment? That's rather revolting, if so.
Hello Dear Villain.
I certainly hope that my lack of enthusiasm for the VSL sound would not have any impact on your own confidence in its continued use, unless you found that it led you to feel differently yourself. We can only go by what our own ears tell us.
I would also like to draw attention to the fact that, while I never said anything about the fundamental quality of the music itself that others have done with VSL, nor the character of those people, yours included, some others in this thread felt the need to make the discussion about that, or about "talking out of one's ass." I see by your "likes" that you seem to endorse this kind of attitude, but I implore you to reconsider the net value to the human endeavour of such crass personal escalations of differences in opinion.
Zero&One
Senior Member
Did I mention names? No.
I purposely avoided that.
By the way you are responding, it seems others can't have a opinion on something if it doesn't line up with yours either.
Can I not find something dull and uninspiring?
You see, this type of thread (the way it turned) causes nothing but negativity and self doubt. Fine when it's not yourself feeling it, but when it is... then people get upset.
MarcHedenberg
Active Member
Underrated comment.
Dear Villain
Senior Member
Hi Mike,
Thank you for your clarification. I apologize if you felt my "like" of Jimmy Hellfire's post was in some way an attack on your right to like what you like. In general, I've found so many of Jimmy's posts highly informative and I appreciate his views on a lot of issues. That's all that was...of course, it did make me feel better on a personal level to know that others believe there are more than simply a couple of composers making good use of VSL.
I also understand that your comments are specific to the quality/aesthetics of the libraries in question, not the competence of the composers. Thanks for taking the time to clarify your own point of view. I listened to some of your work and can completely understand how the VSL sound might not work for you. You've done great work and I wish you continued success!
Cheers,
Dave
Michael Antrum
Only the good die young....
On a related note, I am a bit of a recent VSL convert. Another member posted this on another area of the forum, using VSL's 'old' libraries. I think it's rather good....
Thread below....
vi-control.net
Thread below....
Vivaldi - Summer - Presto --- Vienna Special Edition VOL 1 and 1 PLUS
Hi everyone A mockup for this well-known piece. Software I have used: Cubase - Especial Edition VOL 1 & 1 PLUS - Vienna instrument Pro - Virtualsoundstage - Valhalla room reverb I accompanied it with a video to make it more enjoyable. Feedback, criticism and opinions are welcome Greetings
vi-control.net
Alex Fraser
Requires ☕️
I’ve heard compositions from both Dave and Mike - each using opposing libraries in the dry/wet debate.
And both guys make great music. Dry, wet, whatever.
And both guys make great music. Dry, wet, whatever.
Geoff
New Member
New here as looking to buy a VI package and was very interested in the current big VSL discounts that expire on April 2nd. I was looking at the full Cube.
Read though all this thread which was interesting and informative though not sure I am much further forward! It did introduce me to the intriguing BBCSO though which I was warming to.
One thing that got mentioned only once though was notation software - it is very important to me as using notation software is how I work i.e. Sibelius. VSL has dedicated soundsets whereas the BBCSO does not and though there are ways round this with dedicated commands this is a bit of game changer for me as I really don't want to go down that road and spend many hours just trying to get articulations (and dynamics?) to work. Have I got this right?
Read though all this thread which was interesting and informative though not sure I am much further forward! It did introduce me to the intriguing BBCSO though which I was warming to.
One thing that got mentioned only once though was notation software - it is very important to me as using notation software is how I work i.e. Sibelius. VSL has dedicated soundsets whereas the BBCSO does not and though there are ways round this with dedicated commands this is a bit of game changer for me as I really don't want to go down that road and spend many hours just trying to get articulations (and dynamics?) to work. Have I got this right?
Michael Antrum
Only the good die young....
I‘ve recently switch to doing my notation in Staffpad on an iPad, but before that I was using Noteperformer in Dorico for scoring, so I can’t help there.
However My reason for posting is that there’s a guy selling a full cube in the classifieds at the moment, which could save you some money - if that’s the way you decide to go...
However My reason for posting is that there’s a guy selling a full cube in the classifieds at the moment, which could save you some money - if that’s the way you decide to go...
muk
Senior Member
@Geoff if you plan on using the audio output of Sibelius only, BBCSO and VSL Cube both are not the right decision in my opinion. Because by far the most important factor why the audio output of a notation program does not sound good/realistic is the static playback. There is no variation in timing, nor in volume. And that sounds robotic, as no human would nor could ever play that way. Buying better sounds will not change anything about that. The sounds play a part as well of course, but the far greater obstacle is the completely lifeless playback of the notation program.
So if you buy BBCSO or VSL Cube, you'd end up having invested around 1000$, and get only marginally better playback from Sibelius.
Instead, I would advise to look into Wallander NotePerformer:
www.noteperformer.com
Noteperformer does tackle the lifeless output, as it tries to interpret notation the way that musicians would. It's not as good as a good mockup, but it has the best playback directly from a notation program I have ever heard. And by a large margin. In my opinion, NotePerformer sounds way better than playback from Sibelius with VSL Cube. It's considerably less expensive too. There is a free trial. I would advise to try that and see if you like it before spending a large sum on a sample library.
TL;DR: my advise would be: if you do not want to work with a daw, VSL Cube and BBCSO will not benefit you much. These are great tools for creating mockups. For playback from a notation program - not so much. Instead, look into Wallander NotePerformer. It really increases the quality of notation program playback a lot. Alternatively, Staffpad could be an option if you are into creating scores on a tablet with a touchpen.
So if you buy BBCSO or VSL Cube, you'd end up having invested around 1000$, and get only marginally better playback from Sibelius.
Instead, I would advise to look into Wallander NotePerformer:
NotePerformer 4
NotePerformer 4 is the Artificial Intelligence-based orchestral playback engine for Sibelius, Finale & Dorico.
www.noteperformer.com
Noteperformer does tackle the lifeless output, as it tries to interpret notation the way that musicians would. It's not as good as a good mockup, but it has the best playback directly from a notation program I have ever heard. And by a large margin. In my opinion, NotePerformer sounds way better than playback from Sibelius with VSL Cube. It's considerably less expensive too. There is a free trial. I would advise to try that and see if you like it before spending a large sum on a sample library.
TL;DR: my advise would be: if you do not want to work with a daw, VSL Cube and BBCSO will not benefit you much. These are great tools for creating mockups. For playback from a notation program - not so much. Instead, look into Wallander NotePerformer. It really increases the quality of notation program playback a lot. Alternatively, Staffpad could be an option if you are into creating scores on a tablet with a touchpen.
Geoff
New Member
Thanks muk. Interestingly I downloaded the demo of that recently but not tried it yet so will!
What I would say about Sibelius is if you have the correct soundsets is that it isn't as lifeless as you suggest as fine dynamic control is certainly possible as is the life brought in by detailed articulations though I get the point about variation in timing. Also the music I write tends to have fine timings built into the rhythmic notation of the score. But thanks for the tip!
I do use a DAW as well for all sorts of stuff (Logic mainly) but because I conceive of my music in notation form, and often quite complex stuff, I struggle to see how I could do that in a DAW. A somewhat ignorant question therefore arises in my mind: how do people create complex orchestral scores in a DAW only (and presumably not just using the weak notation aspects of a DAW)?
What I would say about Sibelius is if you have the correct soundsets is that it isn't as lifeless as you suggest as fine dynamic control is certainly possible as is the life brought in by detailed articulations though I get the point about variation in timing. Also the music I write tends to have fine timings built into the rhythmic notation of the score. But thanks for the tip!
I do use a DAW as well for all sorts of stuff (Logic mainly) but because I conceive of my music in notation form, and often quite complex stuff, I struggle to see how I could do that in a DAW. A somewhat ignorant question therefore arises in my mind: how do people create complex orchestral scores in a DAW only (and presumably not just using the weak notation aspects of a DAW)?
Geoff
New Member
Interesting. I can't see that working for the sort of stuff I write even if my keyboard skills were up to it, as the rhythmic and expressive complexity is too great. Kind of the whole point for me of scoring music using notation is that you go beyond the idea of the keyboard and one's own technical capacity and instead imagine the specialist skills of each instrumentalist and their vertical combination.
