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Spitfire BBC Symphonic Orchestra vs VSL CUBE Full library Black Friday offer

I started in this thread owning some various VSL (and basic player) and BBC. I now have Cube full and Pro Player and still BBC.
I spent last part of December with Pro player and it has changed my view drastically. I love it and the content I bought. I still also love BBC and nothing has changed that. They are both great.

I keep reading the comments of a "modern sound" used when comparing though. Did these newer libraries use only new violins, new mics and new hall... or is it maybe the demo content plays modern type trailer music vs VSL more classical style. Either way, I'm not a huge fan of modern scores so I'll stick with these dusty old samples and BBC SO for my ventures.

There's no wrong choice if you like the sound and enjoy them. Both these tick my boxes.
My point exactly! Comparing VSL with BBCSO makes little sense. They both have their justification, I personally tend a little more towards VSL, but it depends on what I want to achieve.
Why does it always have to come down to a comparison that depends far too much on personal taste?
Why not be allowed to find both good?
 
Similarly, high-classical works that call for great and virtuosic precision are probably going to sound much, much better on VSL that on SSO, which might sound kind of ... maybe not lifeless, but maybe kind of vague, lacking the vibrant precision of the VSL

Not SSO, but I'm trying a little of Bach's 3rd Partita for violin with the BBCSO leader, and it sounds vibrantly precise to me! A bit frustrating to program, given that no developer (sample developers, as the sound of modeling does not work for me at all) has yet solved the issue of easily linking together different articulations (and I don't consider the VSL matrix approach a solution, since it still requires programming), but it is possible, and quite lovely sonically.

I don't doubt that this will continue being the most worthwhile VI purchase I've made for years.

By that same token, there's nothing that says one can't do huge produced cinematic music or Olafur-flavored stuff with VSL. You won't get there as easily as with something that's made for that kind of music, but I think people underestimate how versatile most complete orchestral collections are.

What a virtual orchestra can or can't do stylistically is not likely to ever be on my list of criticisms, because I think that range, while not unlimited, is far more defined by how you use it than by anything inherent in it. How it sounds, doing anything, will always be on that list, though.
 
A litmus test might be to take all the spitfire demos, and mock them up with the VSL and then all the VSL demos and mock them up with the SSO.
About two years ago I became enamored with Alexander Schiborr's tracks, including one called "Polychordal Deep Space" wherein he shared the track as he developed it as a case study on Redbanned, and ultimately, with me, the MIDI file (he's generous that way). The track doesn't seem to be on SoundCloud any more (due to their recent size restrictions perhaps), but anyway can be found here:


.. and other places if you Google it. I mention this because I laboriously created a Sibelius score for Polychordal for my own study and edification, and drove an entire-VSL template directly from Sibelius (thru VEP; I owned no Spitfire at the time, just VSL Special Edition). Alexander's original implementation was entirely Spitfire SSO/Percussion ... and indeed the piece is more of a Spitfire-type piece per the discussion in this thread. I thought ultimately that the VSL rendition sounded decently convincing ... and I did absolutely zero tweaking on it. I did situate the instruments in MIR.

If anyone is interested in A-B'ing the Spitfire and the VSL, let me know and I will dredge them up. Since I have the MIDI, I know the notes are virtually identical, and Alexander hewed pretty closely to standard orchestral practice wrt. his MIDI tracks.
 
Why not be allowed to find both good?

There has to be a winner. Just seems to be the way.

BBCSO might not be the perfect choice either, but I've yet to hear a VSL demo that sounds like a recording instead of like a bunch of mono close-mic midi tracks panned around with bad reverb.

Listen to the first few... not bad. Eine kleine Nachtmusik by Beat is worthy of a listen. Maybe a bit dull and lifeless but he's got promise.

 
If anyone is interested in A-B'ing the Spitfire and the VSL, let me know and I will dredge them up. Since I have the MIDI, I know the notes are virtually identical, and Alexander hewed pretty closely to standard orchestral practice wrt. his MIDI tracks.

The problem is, you can't simply use an identical MIDI file for different libraries. Each one responds differently to MIDI data and needs to be programmed specifically for a specific library. Otherwise, one (or more) comparisons will inevitable sound weak.
 
Listen to the first few... not bad. Eine kleine Nachtmusik by Beat is worthy of a listen. Maybe a bit dull and lifeless but he's got promise.

To be honest, this sounds worse than I remembered when I made my post above. In addition to the lack of any sense of space, the performances all sound very flat and robotic to me. Most libraries would probably struggle with that Mozart piece, but all the other VSL demos I've heard (on the linked page and elsewhere) feel similarly cheap and artificial to my ears.
 
To be honest, this sounds worse than I remembered when I made my post above. In addition to the lack of any sense of space, the performances all sound very flat and robotic to me. Most libraries would probably struggle with that Mozart piece, but all the other VSL demos I've heard (on the linked page and elsewhere) feel similarly cheap and artificial to my ears.

Cheap... ok. That's me out before I say something ridiculous also.
Bye! (leaves comedy section)
 
The problem is, you can't simply use an identical MIDI file for different libraries. Each one responds differently to MIDI data and needs to be programmed specifically for a specific library. Otherwise, one (or more) comparisons will inevitable sound weak.
I should have been more specific - I used Alexander's MIDI file to insure that the notes I was transcribing into Sibelius were the same pitches/durations as he had used originally. The MIDI stream being sent over to VEP/VSL from Sibelius was entirely a different MIDI stream. I think anyone who perceived the VSL rendering as more 'sterile' could justifiably argue that I should tweak it to improve its 'filmic' qualities. (And indeed I'm not saying the results are identical). However, I am simply suggesting this is a counterexample - i.e. VSL doesn't do too bad as a simple rendition within Sibelius. Partially I suppose this is because there is a lot of musical activity in the piece and it doesn't just linger on long gorgeous sounds - so this sort of comparison is material-dependent. I should go listen to the difference myself a bit more before I wax on any further.
 
Just want to further point out that "lifeless" and "sterile" does not, to me, mean "not cinematic." I've heard as much lively classical playing as I've heard boring cinematic playing. It's not a stylistic thing, it's just about an innate musicality and feeling of intent.
 
It's not a stylistic thing, it's just about an innate musicality and feeling of intent.
Exactly, yes. VSL has always sounded very neutral to me. Having personally tasted a few of their libs now, that is very much how I'm finding them. They take more work to sound musical.

I think this is a lot of what people pick up on when they complain about the VSL sound. They have a legacy feel to them in that regard, which some of their competitors have done better at overcoming.

That said, they do have some very nice instruments. I really do like their woodwinds.
 
Off topic, but may be relevant... I was watching the new Frankenstein series on Netflix the other day. There's some good subtle moments in there with the music. Some of it sounds like the Albions, with Albion 1 and 2 (maybe 3 also?) getting a bit of a workout.

I don't think I'd use BBCSO for this kind of underscore stuff much (I say this without having the library), and I certainly wouldn't reach for my VSL stuff first for this either. I can totally understand why the composers went with something like the Albions. Sure, they used other stuff also, but sometimes it was the Albions doing the heavy lifting.

I played along a bit with my own Albions. The big thing I noticed is they sound production ready out of the box, with no tweaking... nothing. To me, it's all about being able to trust the libraries you work with to produce good results without much effort. I often find myself going back to my Albions for this kind of thing... these libraries can outgun the best stuff out there. They have such a natural musicality to them, and the tone is excellent.

Anywho... my point is that the VSL vs. BBCSO / Spitfire fight is a bit silly when mostly all you really need are some basic ensemble libraries that are well recorded and play very musically.

It's ironic that we argue over all this stuff.
 
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BBCSO might not be the perfect choice either, but I've yet to hear a VSL demo that sounds like a recording instead of like a bunch of mono close-mic midi tracks panned around with bad reverb.
It will never stop! Sad... you guys have no clue. VSL is not mono and too close. Stop talking about things you don‘t understand. As I said, these are recordings in a small scoring stage, it‘s more like a mid microphone without a long tail. This is actual a normal engineering approach you‘re not accustomed to.

Again you‘re talking about the room. No one talks about playability. Disappointing really. Go for your preferred stuff, it will never have VSL quality. You can‘t and maybe don‘t want to appreciate this, because you haven‘t invested much time yet.
 
I mean, you guys love the woodwinds. The same is true for the others, they can sound exactly as good as the woodwinds.

Of course, there are old demos on the VSL page that I hate. Take a look at the dimension series. This is another level. These libraries can achieve complex orchestrations and divisi no other library can.
 
There has to be a winner. Just seems to be the way.


There hasn't to be a winner, really.

I totally like the Spitfire room sound, no question, but not the playability and quality. It's also again the dry vs wet discussion.

I only want to clarify that VSL is an awesome library that should be considered buying. Because of these "hate" here all the love is for Spitfire and others, and is this simply unfair.
 
Take a look at the dimension series. This is another level. These libraries can achieve complex orchestrations and divisi no other library can.

Well people will have all kinds of perspectives and expectations, so who knows what plays into the individual perception of things. VSL also has a ton of products spanning two decades now, so I can imagine that some might sound better or worse to one's ears.

But whoever thinks that Dimension isn't absolute top league is out of their mind and shouldn't talk about samples, ever. :grin:
 
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