Spitfire BBC - Drama Spinoff

Mike Greene

Senior Member
Moderator
This thread (ignore the date of this particular post, which is an old post that I edited and moved here so that this thread could start with this explanation) was moved here to the Drama Zone because Daniel, Staypuft, JDiggity and Paul Cardon were having an argument that wasn't suitable for the more legitimate Spitfire BBC Orchestra thread.

This argument was about a joke JDiggity made. Someone had suggested a change Spitfire could make to BBCSO, and JDiggity responded with "Anything that will reduce the moaning, I am in favor of."

Personally I think that's pretty funny, but Daniel and Staypuft both took offense and drama ensued, including Daniel using words like cunty, bullshit and fuck off in one of his responses to Paul Cardon. So I did what I usually do in situations like that and moved the drama posts here. (Those are posts 2 through 21 in this thread, although Daniel changed his first post and deleted all his others, so the context may be lost.)

For people not in the mood to read this entire thread, but are wondering what got Daniel "banned" (it was not because of that argument, nor was it because of any Spitfire negativity), here is the overview:

Daniel was given a timeout when he kept changing his first post to an ad for Hybrid Two. I guess to prove to me that I'm not the boss of him. I got tired of changing the posts back again and thought he would get the hint to stop, but he did not. So I asked him - twice - to stop. He persisted and changed the first post to a Hybrid Two ad yet again, so that's when he was given a timeout. (Timeouts appear as bans, but they are generally temporary. Members are almost always reinstated when I can be assured problems won't continue.)

I need to emphasize that *that* is the reason for the ban/timeout, as can be confirmed by reading this thread. Contrary to what is being said elsewhere, this has nothing to do with "protecting Spitfire." Don't believe me? Note that there are lots and lots of posts critical of Spitfire in their threads. Always have been and no doubt always will. (Go ahead ... check!) We do not delete critical posts, nor does Spitfire ever ask us to.

We do, however, feel we should take action (in this case, moving offending posts to the Drama Zone) when people start calling each other cunts. Surely in a time where we are trying to be more welcoming to women and LGBT members, that's understandable? Note, however, that even then, no one was "disciplined" here for that - we simply moved those posts here to the Drama Zone, so that other people wouldn't have to see them.

For those who might say this all should have been handled privately, I will also note that when a moderator asked Daniel to change the word "cunty" to something else, he ignored the moderator.
 

Daniel James

A Nice Guy
I didn't start this thread. It was moved here from another thread and made to look like I started it by the mods. Without context it makes me look like a c***, and I now think that was probably the intention.

I have no option to delete it either. As pathetic as it sounds I am literally forced to be here. So I guess if I have to be here I will just use the thread title to promote stuff... unfortunatly I can't change the title now.... guess i'll just post stuff in this post then. Enjoy
:)


As this is already in the Drama Zone, worth pointing out this only happens with, big VI sponsor Spitfire's threads. I comment with just as much critique and colourful language in other threads such as the recent Waves and Native Instrument ones, but no one bats an eye. Say something critical in a Spitfire thread and you end up in the Drama zone (just check out the ratio of Spitfire to other company threads in Drama Zone)
 

Paul Cardon

Ninja Otter Music
I see a lot of people discussing issues they are having, and suggesting ways in which they would like to see things improved. The company is even openly accepting these critiques.

You know full well you are lumping that in as moaning, and moaning has a negative connotation. Unless you are referring to something else of course? because thats the way I saw it. Needless, particularly from a mod.

-DJ
Wonder how many times we're gonna need to have the "moaning" vs. "critique and discussion" argument.
 

Paul Cardon

Ninja Otter Music
At least once more it seems.

Imagine this for a second, if you can. You spend a grand on something, you have issues or are dissapointed, you want to discuss your issues and suggest improvements. Then people (including site moderators) start telling you that you are just moaning.

Do you think that helps or hurts the discourse in the long run. ffs.

-DJ
There's a broad range of things happening across this giant thread, some of what you're saying, some of moaning, some of legit discussion and critique. Continually characterizing an overall diverse set of conversations like this weird "big company vs. the abused" thing is a pain in the ass when it seems obvious Jdig was 1. making a bit of a joke, and 2. directing the joke at a specifically firey interchange.

Are you sitting on this thread reading everything waiting for your moments?
 
Last edited:

Jdiggity1

Senior Member
Moderator
I appreciate all of the recent ... ahem ... legitimate criticisms .... but I'm going to ask both of you to drop it like it's hot, and I will do the same. I can already hear the eyes rolling at us.

For everyone else, feel free to keep the legitimate criticisms coming (if there are any left?), they are of course perfectly fine, and I do not lump them in the same category as moaning. Apologies if anybody felt that I did.
 

Benjamin Duk

Active Member
Anything that will reduce the moaning, I am in favor of
No offense, but "moaning" is what actually keeps developers from doing nothing and stagnating. Look at companies like Adobe, EA games, Nokia (now a dead company), Intel (getting destroyed now by AMD).

Just because you don't agree with everyone's criticism does not mean it is not legitimate and warranted. Just as much as you think your opinion matters, so does the opposite side. You opinion does not matter more than others.
 
Last edited:

staypuft

Member
I appreciate all of the recent ... ahem ... legitimate criticisms .... but I'm going to ask both of you to drop it like it's hot, and I will do the same. I can already hear the eyes rolling at us.

For everyone else, feel free to keep the legitimate criticisms coming (if there are any left?), they are of course perfectly fine, and I do not lump them in the same category as moaning. Apologies if anybody felt that I did.
You should moderate equally and not abuse your moderator privileges. A few examples of the way you treated me:

Anything that will reduce the moaning, I am in favor of
"Proving yourself" is not a prerequisite for having a whine on a forum.
Maybe if we don't make eye contact, he'll leave us alone.... 👀
I don´t care if you don´t like me but anyone should be allowed to post. Anyone. A moderator must remain impartial and judge people on their forum behavior. My opinion may be unpopular but I never disrespected anyone here and always kept on topic. At the same time I was being repeatedly insulted and you did absolutely nothing about it. Instead you joined the mob to stir things up. Your role as moderator is to set and control the tone of the forum and lead by good examples.

And also this:

Just a Public Service Announcement to anybody reading the post quoted above:
This is speculation, and not a fact. I advise you to ignore
Weeks prior to release, after a lot of pressure, Christian stated in one of his videos that they didn´t have a Windows//Cubase rig to test BBCSO and compare to his Logic template. It doesn´t take a genius to realize that Spitfire wasn´t prepared for what was coming and it clearly showed during the release fiasco. Breaking issues that prevented Windows customers from using a 1000$ product for weeks. At least they are sorting people out and we have the owner openly accepting critiques and suggestions. No thanks to you or the angry mob who promptly attacked anyone who had any negative perception about BBCSO and the merlin engine.
 

Alex Fraser

Senior Member
You should moderate equally and not abuse your moderator privileges. A few examples of the way you treated me:







I don´t care if you don´t like me but anyone should be allowed to post. Anyone. A moderator must remain impartial and judge people on their forum behavior. My opinion may be unpopular but I never disrespected anyone here and always kept on topic. At the same time I was being repeatedly insulted and you did absolutely nothing about it. Instead you joined the mob to stir things up. Your role as moderator is to set and control the tone of the forum and lead by good examples.

And also this:



Weeks prior to release, after a lot of pressure, Christian stated in one of his videos that they didn´t have a Windows//Cubase rig to test BBCSO and compare to his Logic template. It doesn´t take a genius to realize that Spitfire wasn´t prepared for what was coming and it clearly showed during the release fiasco. Breaking issues that prevented Windows customers from using a 1000$ product for weeks. At least they are sorting people out and we have the owner openly accepting critiques and suggestions. No thanks to you or the angry mob who promptly attacked anyone who had any negative perception about BBCSO and the merlin engine.
To be fair, I’m not sure all of those mod comments were directed at you.

Also, you did come on the thread with all guns blazing, mate. You can’t complain when you inevitably get a bit of blowback.

The music you posted using the library was actually quite tasty and I reckon the forum could learn from your obvious skills using it. Maybe that’s a conversation we could have instead?
 
Last edited:

Jdiggity1

Senior Member
Moderator
You should moderate equally and not abuse your moderator privileges. A few examples of the way you treated me:

jdiggity1 said:
Anything that will reduce the moaning, I am in favor of
jdiggity1 said:
"Proving yourself" is not a prerequisite for having a whine on a forum.
jdiggity1 said:
Maybe if we don't make eye contact, he'll leave us alone.... 👀
I don´t care if you don´t like me but anyone should be allowed to post. Anyone. A moderator must remain impartial and judge people on their forum behavior. My opinion may be unpopular but I never disrespected anyone here and always kept on topic. At the same time I was being repeatedly insulted and you did absolutely nothing about it. Instead you joined the mob to stir things up. Your role as moderator is to set and control the tone of the forum and lead by good examples.
I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiment here staypuft, and I'm afraid I've been misinterpreted.
The first two quotes of mine you have chosen, are not directed at you at all. In fact, the second one is in your defense, when I felt you were being unfairly prodded to "prove yourself".
I agree that the third one could be seen a bit like teaming up, I apologize for that one, but my only intention was to keep others from further prodding, and to suggest "looking away" instead of more confrontation and bickering. A 'mob' mentality is the last thing I wish to see here, or anywhere for that matter.

As for the Windows testing issue, well, Paul covered that pretty well.
As a mod, I was simply stepping in to cross out a bit of misinformation before it snowballed into something else, as misinformation can so easily do. I can see why you believed it to be true though, so thanks for clarifying.

Edit: While I'm here, I'll address Benjamin Duk too:
No offense, but "moaning" is what actually keeps developers from doing nothing and stagnating. Look at companies like Adobe, EA games, Nokia (now a dead company), Intel (getting destroyed now by AMD).

Just because you don't agree with everyone's criticism does not mean it is not legitimate and warranted. Just as much as you think your opinion matters, so does the opposite side. You opinion does not matter more than others.
I agree with this also, very much. But you replied to that post before reading the posts that followed it, where I clarified my position. "Moaning" was not meant to encompass legitimate criticisms. But it would be naive to suggest that there hasn't been any moaning going on in this bohemoth of a thread, amongst the legitimate and fair criticisms.

I try to keep things light-hearted. Poor choice of words from me, I'll try to learn from it.
 
Last edited: