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Spitfire Audio “This is London Calling” - BBC Symphony Orchestra

Soule's thing is a very tough sound to get right, in large part because we are not using the stuff he uses, mostly anyway. That transcription sounds quite accurate though, nice!

A lot of what I try to do, sonically at least, draws heavily on the two examples you asked about, as it turns out. BBCSO can do the Shore Middle-Earth sound so well! So far this is the happiest I've been with getting close to that specific thing. I should say though, that this was not done using the Mix 1 + reverb approach I just said should work best. :laugh:
 
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Thanks for the replies guys, so insightful! Damn Muk that sounds amazing. Strings sound so warm, literally sounds like a different noise that is coming out of my speakers when I use the library, though I think that may be my skills rather than the software. We’re you using all legatos for the longer sections? Mixing stuff up?

I tried doing a bit of a Skyrim song a few months back for some Soule training but I couldn’t get the strings with BBCSO to sound right so ended up using other stuff and just messing around and it became a bit of a tower of cards. I did at least use the woodwinds, harp and drums. It was about as close as I could get to that ‘everything is in the background but you can somehow hear all the important bits’ sound. :/

Going to work on some Shoriness now and force myself to use BBCSO, you guys have inspired me!

What strings did you end up using on that?
 
Thanks for the replies guys, so insightful! Damn Muk that sounds amazing. Strings sound so warm, literally sounds like a different noise that is coming out of my speakers when I use the library, though I think that may be my skills rather than the software. We’re you using all legatos for the longer sections? Mixing stuff up?

Thanks @Mrmonkey. I used the legato only patch for some of the strings for the long notes. Not the 'performance legato' patch that is loaded up by default. On some of the instruments, the legato only patch has better legato programming than the performance legato patch. Takes a bit of trial and error for each instrument to find out. Apart from that, the long notes are all legato patches.
 
Soule's thing is a very tough sound to get right, in large part because we are not using the stuff he uses, mostly anyway. That transcription sounds quite accurate though, nice!

A lot of what I try to do, sonically at least, draws heavily on the two examples you asked about, as it turns out. BBCSO can do the Shore Middle-Earth sound so well! So far this is the happiest I've been with getting close to that specific thing. I should say though, that this was not done using the Mix 1 + reverb approach I just said should work best. :laugh:


Sounds great 👍 Good job 👏
 
Thanks @Mrmonkey. I used the legato only patch for some of the strings for the long notes. Not the 'performance legato' patch that is loaded up by default.
Ummm...I have BBCSO Pro, and there is only ONE legato patch for the strings... am I missing something?
 
+1 to what @Mike T wrote. For a Lord of the Rings sound, mix 1 with just a bit of additional reverb is pretty close. I used mix 1 and a bit of VSS3 on this example:



Linos, that is really good.
 
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I have some really dumb microphone questions for pro version.

Anyone have any tips on using the microphones for a more... soundtracky/cinematic tone? I feel like I tie myself in knotts with all the different ones.

Also when changing mics is it best to say, have the same setup for all instruments and then just change a couple of instruments or once you go away from the mixes,do You need to start compensating and say changing the brass mics to keep the organisation of the orchestra?

Then another question on top, how does that work with your reverbs? Let’s say I wanted ‘lord of the rings’ or channeled my inner Jeremy Soule.Would it be better to try to use mics such as the further/more atmospheric mics or should you instead use more reverb and keep the mic setup more standard? Or say if you want to make the violins more prominent, should you try to use a closer mic or lower the reverb applied to that track?

Sorry if the question is really dumb!
The only dumb questions are the ones you don't ask.

The one thing you should focus on with all these mics, is to make sure in the end it sounds like one orchestra: do this before you add any reverb. The easiest method for this is to use the mix 1 mic first...get all your parts down and orchestrations straight, then start "pre-mixing" the library by experimenting with the mics per section. Do not use all of the same mics across the board as this is unrealistic and not typical of an orchestral mix.

Example: start with the tree for everyone...think of this as the overall "glue" mic...then start bringing in spot mics* to further address levels and clarity. Then try other mics to help give you the overall depth you're looking for. Example of this approach would be to use more of the ambient mics for the percussion as they are set further back in an ensemble, and then spot them if they have an important accent. Percussion also may not need to be that wide...certainly not much wider than the strings, so use the additional mics to create your stereo field...this is why I say not ALL mics should be used across all instruments.

*best approach here is to automate the mics...you may not need the extra clarity within a passage, but if it becomes more exposed, then the spot mics help...will vary per piece of course.

Hope this answers some of your questions.
 

Jake. You're saying that it's unrealistic for a single blend of microphones to be applied to the entire orchestra, but applying ambient mics to only percussion, as in your example, is not unrealistic? You can't use the ambient mics only on the percussion in a real session unless it's striped, which is inarguably "less realistic" than recording everyone together at once.

I'm not saying there isn't plenty of reason to occasionally have different blends on different instruments/sections (usually just involving bits of spot mic detail as you said, since those can be adjusted independently in "reality"), but it seems silly to suggest that there is no orchestral music recorded with a simple and unchanging mic mix. That's just not true.
 
Jake. You're saying that it's unrealistic for a single blend of microphones to be applied to the entire orchestra, but applying ambient mics to only percussion, as in your example, is not unrealistic? You can't use the ambient mics only on the percussion in a real session unless it's striped, which is inarguably "less realistic" than recording everyone together at once.

I'm not saying there isn't plenty of reason to occasionally have different blends on different instruments/sections (usually just involving bits of spot mic detail as you said, since those can be adjusted independently in "reality"), but it seems silly to suggest that there is no orchestral music recorded with a simple and unchanging mic mix. That's just not true.
Didn't mean to imply that percussion is the only instrument to benefit from ambient mics :), and certainly not the only mic (I said use "more" of the ambient mics, not to imply they were the only ones)...it was an example to use as an approach...a starting point for various outcomes.

My point was to get a blend of a few mics first as the overall...but I only mentioned two...I didn't mean for it to be taken literally...but again, as a starting point for a general sound. THEN...add in the additional mics and automate the close or ambient mics as needed to get the results.

Bottom line, there is no one way of doing things and if leaving a static mic mix works, then it works, but I can see many people being overwhelmed with this many mics and have no idea where to start.
 
(I said use "more" of the ambient mics, not to imply they were the only ones)

Same problem though! You can't dial up the ambient mics for the percussion only in a real session. If we're going to talk about what's "realistic" and "typical" (not the only way of course, but it's what I prefer), then it has to be understood that any microphones which aren't localized to a single player or section need to be treated the same across the board. Adjust one, adjust them all.

I get what you're saying man... experiment and try things out. And really, anything goes in sampleland if it sounds right, of course. What I initially quoted you as saying just struck me as odd.
 
I should say though, that this was not done using the Mix 1 + reverb approach I just said should work best. :laugh:

Can you tell us a bit more about how you did this?

This is one of the most convincing "demos" for BBCSO that I have heard so far (okay, I'm also a great lover of the "Lord of the Rings" sound, I admit it must influence my opinion :grin:).

Apart from the choir, everything is only BBCSO? Usually, to achieve this really particular type of sound, I use EWHO which works wonderfully (with quite a few additions of other libraries here and there to correct some weaknesses) but your use of BBCSO could well make me reconsider this choice, at least in part! !

Bravo Mike!
 
Thanks @Mrmonkey. I used the legato only patch for some of the strings for the long notes. Not the 'performance legato' patch that is loaded up by default. On some of the instruments, the legato only patch has better legato programming than the performance legato patch. Takes a bit of trial and error for each instrument to find out. Apart from that, the long notes are all legato patches.

Huh? There is no second legato for strings in BBCSO.
 
As long as we are on the BBC...I have two questions:

first: Violin 2 spiccato patch is absolutely awful...like if the violin is broken. Is this just my copy, or everyone else?

Second: What's with the harp articulations...seems like they are mislabeled. Damped is sustain, sustain is damped...etc. Anyone else with me on this? Or again, just a bad download?
 
quoted the same thing...no reply. Maybe he got confused with another library, or found something we missed.. :)
Hi Jake,

BBCSO is not currently installed on my PC, but if you have the pro version, I think I remember that you have to go to the "techniques editor" tab of each instrument to be able to select an additional, simpler version of the legato patch but that actually often sounds better. If it helps ...
It seems to me that Core and Discover do not offer this option.
 
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Hi Jake,

BBCSO is currently not installed on my PC, but if you have the pro version, I think I remember that you have to go to the "techniques editor" tab of each instrument to be able to select an additional version that is simpler but which actually often sounds better from the legato patch. If it helps ...
It seems to me that Core and Discover do not offer this option.
Yes..this is for the brass and winds..NOT strings though, which I think are the instruments in question. And there is no "performance Legato" in BBC...it's Legato (extended) or simply Legato. Hence the confusion.
 
Can you tell us a bit more about how you did this?

This is one of the most convincing "demos" for BBCSO that I have heard so far (okay, I'm also a great lover of the "Lord of the Rings" sound, I admit it must influence my opinion :grin:).

Apart from the choir, everything is only BBCSO? Usually, to achieve this really particular type of sound, I use EWHO which works wonderfully (with quite a few additions of other libraries here and there to correct some weaknesses) but your use of BBCSO could well make me reconsider this choice, at least in part! !

Bravo Mike!

Yeah that's all BBCSO plus Eric Whitacre Choir.

I'm sorry I can't be very specific since I did this a while ago and tend to not save project files. I do know that it was a basic tree/outrigger/ambient mix, in accordance with the diagram of John Kurlander's original recording setup, possibly with some mids on winds, brass, and percussion. I also know that I boosted (Pultec, if it matters) the high end around 14k more than I'd normally dare, to get closer to the amount of "air" in the original. Probably could have gone even more extreme actually.

Sorry, correction: I'm now remembering that this was mostly just the tree, no outriggers or ambients. Some added mid detail like I said though.
 
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Linos, that is really good.

Thank you Jay!

I have BBCSO Pro, and there is only ONE legato patch for the strings... am I missing something?

Nope, my mistake. I was answering from off the top of my head and thought the strings had the same legato only patch that some of the woodwinds and brass have. But they don't. So for the long strings notes, it's all the legato patch that loads up by default.
 
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