Spitfire Audio “This is London Calling” - BBC Symphony Orchestra

jaketanner

Senior Member
Jake. You're saying that it's unrealistic for a single blend of microphones to be applied to the entire orchestra, but applying ambient mics to only percussion, as in your example, is not unrealistic? You can't use the ambient mics only on the percussion in a real session unless it's striped, which is inarguably "less realistic" than recording everyone together at once.

I'm not saying there isn't plenty of reason to occasionally have different blends on different instruments/sections (usually just involving bits of spot mic detail as you said, since those can be adjusted independently in "reality"), but it seems silly to suggest that there is no orchestral music recorded with a simple and unchanging mic mix. That's just not true.
Didn't mean to imply that percussion is the only instrument to benefit from ambient mics :), and certainly not the only mic (I said use "more" of the ambient mics, not to imply they were the only ones)...it was an example to use as an approach...a starting point for various outcomes.

My point was to get a blend of a few mics first as the overall...but I only mentioned two...I didn't mean for it to be taken literally...but again, as a starting point for a general sound. THEN...add in the additional mics and automate the close or ambient mics as needed to get the results.

Bottom line, there is no one way of doing things and if leaving a static mic mix works, then it works, but I can see many people being overwhelmed with this many mics and have no idea where to start.
 

Mike T

Annoyed Member
(I said use "more" of the ambient mics, not to imply they were the only ones)
Same problem though! You can't dial up the ambient mics for the percussion only in a real session. If we're going to talk about what's "realistic" and "typical" (not the only way of course, but it's what I prefer), then it has to be understood that any microphones which aren't localized to a single player or section need to be treated the same across the board. Adjust one, adjust them all.

I get what you're saying man... experiment and try things out. And really, anything goes in sampleland if it sounds right, of course. What I initially quoted you as saying just struck me as odd.
 

EricValette

New Member
I should say though, that this was not done using the Mix 1 + reverb approach I just said should work best. :laugh:
Can you tell us a bit more about how you did this?

This is one of the most convincing "demos" for BBCSO that I have heard so far (okay, I'm also a great lover of the "Lord of the Rings" sound, I admit it must influence my opinion :grin:).

Apart from the choir, everything is only BBCSO? Usually, to achieve this really particular type of sound, I use EWHO which works wonderfully (with quite a few additions of other libraries here and there to correct some weaknesses) but your use of BBCSO could well make me reconsider this choice, at least in part! !

Bravo Mike!
 
Thanks @Mrmonkey. I used the legato only patch for some of the strings for the long notes. Not the 'performance legato' patch that is loaded up by default. On some of the instruments, the legato only patch has better legato programming than the performance legato patch. Takes a bit of trial and error for each instrument to find out. Apart from that, the long notes are all legato patches.
Huh? There is no second legato for strings in BBCSO.
 

jaketanner

Senior Member
As long as we are on the BBC...I have two questions:

first: Violin 2 spiccato patch is absolutely awful...like if the violin is broken. Is this just my copy, or everyone else?

Second: What's with the harp articulations...seems like they are mislabeled. Damped is sustain, sustain is damped...etc. Anyone else with me on this? Or again, just a bad download?
 

EricValette

New Member
quoted the same thing...no reply. Maybe he got confused with another library, or found something we missed.. :)
Hi Jake,

BBCSO is not currently installed on my PC, but if you have the pro version, I think I remember that you have to go to the "techniques editor" tab of each instrument to be able to select an additional, simpler version of the legato patch but that actually often sounds better. If it helps ...
It seems to me that Core and Discover do not offer this option.
 
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jaketanner

Senior Member
Hi Jake,

BBCSO is currently not installed on my PC, but if you have the pro version, I think I remember that you have to go to the "techniques editor" tab of each instrument to be able to select an additional version that is simpler but which actually often sounds better from the legato patch. If it helps ...
It seems to me that Core and Discover do not offer this option.
Yes..this is for the brass and winds..NOT strings though, which I think are the instruments in question. And there is no "performance Legato" in BBC...it's Legato (extended) or simply Legato. Hence the confusion.
 

Mike T

Annoyed Member
Can you tell us a bit more about how you did this?

This is one of the most convincing "demos" for BBCSO that I have heard so far (okay, I'm also a great lover of the "Lord of the Rings" sound, I admit it must influence my opinion :grin:).

Apart from the choir, everything is only BBCSO? Usually, to achieve this really particular type of sound, I use EWHO which works wonderfully (with quite a few additions of other libraries here and there to correct some weaknesses) but your use of BBCSO could well make me reconsider this choice, at least in part! !

Bravo Mike!
Yeah that's all BBCSO plus Eric Whitacre Choir.

I'm sorry I can't be very specific since I did this a while ago and tend to not save project files. I do know that it was a basic tree/outrigger/ambient mix, in accordance with the diagram of John Kurlander's original recording setup, possibly with some mids on winds, brass, and percussion. I also know that I boosted (Pultec, if it matters) the high end around 14k more than I'd normally dare, to get closer to the amount of "air" in the original. Probably could have gone even more extreme actually.

Sorry, correction: I'm now remembering that this was mostly just the tree, no outriggers or ambients. Some added mid detail like I said though.
 
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muk

Senior Member
Linos, that is really good.
Thank you Jay!

I have BBCSO Pro, and there is only ONE legato patch for the strings... am I missing something?
Nope, my mistake. I was answering from off the top of my head and thought the strings had the same legato only patch that some of the woodwinds and brass have. But they don't. So for the long strings notes, it's all the legato patch that loads up by default.
 

EricValette

New Member
Yeah that's all BBCSO plus Eric Whitacre Choir.

I'm sorry I can't be very specific since I did this a while ago and tend to not save project files. I do know that it was a basic tree/outrigger/ambient mix, in accordance with the diagram of John Kurlander's original recording setup, possibly with some mids on winds, brass, and percussion. I also know that I boosted (Pultec, if it matters) the high end around 14k more than I'd normally dare, to get closer to the amount of "air" in the original. Probably could have gone even more extreme actually.

Sorry, correction: I'm now remembering that this was mostly just the tree, no outriggers or ambients. Some added mid detail like I said though.
Thank you so much Mike, it's very helpful! :)

I believe you seriously motivated me to take a serious turn on the BBCSO side again, because with so few mics activated and only one library (EWC aside), it sounds as good as my "Frankenstein orchestra" with 3-4 positions activated by section and layering in all corners to match the LOTR reference sound.

One last thing, do you remember what reverb plugin did you used? It seems to me that it could be VSS3 or 7th heaven, but maybe I'm completely wrong... :grin:
 

Mike T

Annoyed Member
Thank you so much Mike, it's very helpful! :)

I believe you seriously motivated me to take a serious turn on the BBCSO side again, because with so few mics activated and only one library (EWC aside), it sounds as good as my "Frankenstein orchestra" with 3-4 positions activated by section and layering in all corners to match the LOTR reference sound.

One last thing, do you remember what reverb plugin did you used? It seems to me that it could be VSS3 or 7th heaven, but maybe I'm completely wrong... :grin:
Yes, Seventh Heaven. North Church, I think.

By the way, I'm glad you're motivated to give it another go. It makes me sad to think that so many people here have libraries, BBCSO or not, which they've spent appreciable sums on, just sitting around for whatever reason.

There's always something to nitpick, but ultimately I just don't believe there is much truly in the way of getting great results with any of the modern tools we have available, and people would see that if they took a break from endless buying and focused on something.
 
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Ashermusic

Senior Member
There's always something to nitpick, but ultimately I just don't believe there is much truly in the way of getting great results with any of the modern tools we have available, and people would see that if they took a break from endless buying and focused on something.

Yep.
 

Ashermusic

Senior Member
Jay, did you get BBCSO? If so, what is your take (and comparison to EWHO)?
Only the free version. I just can't justify the cost of buying another big orchestra library.

But I really do like the way BBCSO sounds and I like that it isn't as wet as the Air Lyndhurst Spitfire libraries to work with, although obviously that venue sounds lovely.

Bottom line, if EWHO went away tomorrow, I think it would be my choice.
 

jaketanner

Senior Member
My first attemp with BBCSO (Berlin brass added). It still needs some work.
Constructive suggestions are appreciated :)
Sounds great. I assume this is the Core version? Doesn't sound as wide as it should I guess...but the strings are fantastic...I have the Pro, and can't wait to work with it....great job though.
 

OleJoergensen

Senior Member
Sounds great. I assume this is the Core version? Doesn't sound as wide as it should I guess...but the strings are fantastic...I have the Pro, and can't wait to work with it....great job though.
Thank you Jake.
it is the pro version.... unless I have opened otherwise. I use a medium hall reverb, maybe its why...?