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Soundcloud -- BEWARE

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JohnG

JohnG

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I’m going to play devils advocate here. Couldn’t that paragraph be because the embedded player is widely used? ... If they don’t protect themselves, how can they allow for features like this?

Part of my concern is exactly what you wrote: "If they don't protect THEMESELVES...."

That's what they are doing -- protecting themselves, not the creatives, at least not sufficiently, in my opinion. The language and the form of the contract can easily be misinterpreted (innocently or deliberately). Like many legal documents, you have to read the entire agreement to understand it; I get that and have read plenty of legal documents. I don't like the way this one is written.

I don't post on Youtube either.
 

NoOneKnowsAnything

Active Member
By uploading Your Content to the Platform, you also grant a limited, worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, fully paid up, license to other users of the Platform, and to operators and users of any other websites, apps and/or platforms to which Your Content has been shared or embedded using the Services (“Linked Services”), to use, copy, listen to offline, repost, transmit or otherwise distribute, publicly display, publicly perform, adapt, prepare derivative works of, compile, make available and otherwise communicate to the public

Read their terms of use very carefully and consider whether you want to agree to them before posting. [edit: while there are other paragraphs in the user agreement that may be intended to address issues raised here, I personally am not comfortable with this language and would not post on the site]
I simply make my soundcloud account private so I’m not worried, but that’s great info to know.
 

HarmonyCore

Senior Member
Part of my concern is exactly what you wrote: "If they don't protect THEMESELVES...."

That's what they are doing -- protecting themselves, not the creatives, at least not sufficiently, in my opinion. The language and the form of the contract can easily be misinterpreted (innocently or deliberately). Like many legal documents, you have to read the entire agreement to understand it; I get that and have read plenty of legal documents. I don't like the way this one is written.

I don't post on Youtube either.

I wonder what will be the exact marketing strategy for our music? I think we don't need to post anything ourselves and let the publishers to post on youtube, soundcloud, apple music,..etc. I am not yet a complete expert in the business side but I see many composers have their music posted on streaming services sites by their publishers such as Elephant Music, Really Slow Motion,..etc and not by themselves.

So the question remains, why would someone put his/her work portfolio on streaming sites? Just put them on your Dropbox and create a link for it. And let your publisher post wherever you want after you get paid!

Correct me if I am wrong!
 

fairyclown

New Member
By uploading Your Content to the Platform, you also grant a limited, worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, fully paid up, license to other users of the Platform, and to operators and users of any other websites, apps and/or platforms to which Your Content has been shared or embedded using the Services (“Linked Services”), to use, copy, listen to offline, repost, transmit or otherwise distribute, publicly display, publicly perform, adapt, prepare derivative works of, compile, make available and otherwise communicate to the public

Read their terms of use very carefully and consider whether you want to agree to them before posting. [edit: while there are other paragraphs in the user agreement that may be intended to address issues raised here, I personally am not comfortable with this language and would not post on the site]
I'm no lawyer, but the rest of the paragraph delimits the actual ways in which these usages are permitted. Here is the remainder of the pertinent section: (Note that the paragraph does not actually conclude here - the rest of it limits the use of trade and service marks by end users...)

"By uploading Your Content to the Platform, you also grant a limited, worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, fully paid up, license to other users of the Platform, and to operators and users of any other websites, apps and/or platforms to which Your Content has been shared or embedded using the Services (“Linked Services”), to use, copy, listen to offline, repost, transmit or otherwise distribute, publicly display, publicly perform, adapt, prepare derivative works of, compile, make available and otherwise communicate to the public, Your Content utilizing the features of the Platform from time to time, and within the parameters set by you using the Services. You can limit and restrict the availability of certain of Your Content to other users of the Platform, and to users of Linked Services, at any time using the permissions tab in the track edit section for each sound you upload, subject to the provisions of the Disclaimer section below."

(Bold in the second half of the paragraph added by me)

There are in effect three sections to this paragraph - the first, which lists the license which is being granted and to whom, second, the things which one can do with that license (i.e., use, copy, etc.), and the third, which begins with "Your content utilizing" which limits the application of that license to the parameters that you as content provider have set, and that these activities must exist within the context of 'utilizing the features of the Platform." Unless these film makers are using exclusively Soundcloud to make films, then there is absolutely zero license granted to steal anything from that paragraph in full.

There is also this paragraph which concludes the section on the Grant of License which precludes the uses being discussed in this thread outside of the platform:

"Any Content other than Your Content is the property of the relevant Uploader, and is or may be subject to copyright, trademark rights or other intellectual property or proprietary rights. Such Content may not be downloaded, reproduced, distributed, transmitted, re-uploaded, republished, displayed, sold, licensed, made available or otherwise communicated to the public or exploited for any purposes except via the features of the Platform from time to time and within the parameters set by the Uploader on the Platform or with the express written consent of the Uploader. Where you repost another user’s Content, or include another user’s Content in a playlist or station or where you listen to another user’s Content offline, you acquire no ownership rights whatsoever in that Content. Subject to the rights expressly granted in this section, all rights in Content are reserved to the relevant Uploader."

I would agree - always read the terms carefully. But also be sure to read them in full, and without stopping your reading of the terms before you've actually reached the end of the license being granted. It's the difference between "I want to kill everyone who tries to kill me" and "I want to kill everyone."
I think this is to protect the fact that you can share music from soundcloud publically, which is kind of what artists would wish people to do. It helps promote the artists. It's the agreement that is basically saying "yes, it is ok for this person to share my song from soundcloud on their public pages to the public." But of course as the uploader, you can choose whether or not you would like that. I have a lot of my content on soundcloud hidden and I use it mostly to host songs that someone can quickly stream if I send it for business purposes. I don't really use the platform for much more than that. I agree though that the termonolgy in contracts is sooo confusing and I think everyone has a stigma of signing their life away on a contract lol! It's a scary thing.
 

3DC

Active Member
fuck-them-all.jpg


SoundCloud, Facebook, YouTube, Twitter,...all the same shi*....the "democratization" of your personal data and hard work for corporate benefits. :speechless::mad:

And they act like they are making you a huge favor for exploiting and stealing from you. We hijack your copyright protection with "usual" legal info you "have to agree" so you can't sue us and we take 98% from your work. The good news is, we will give you some pennies, here and there, so you can continue to proudly work for us almost for free. Its a great deal for us but not so much for you! :sick::thumbsdown:

There is a reason why the wast majority of respectable musicians are not present on these platforms at all.
 

dcoscina

Senior Member
Just imagine if a restaurant hosted freelance chefs who could provide excellent cuisine and would drive up business. Then imagine the owners CHARGING the chefs to work there. I mean, really... just superimpose this ideology on any other sector and most people would tell them to go screw themselves... why do we as a community allow this kind of exploitation? Because there is the promise of paying work? Perhaps if you are a pop music artist, SoundCloud could be helpful but I don't see the value of a service which is extremely limited unless the content creators PAY for it. That's fucked up. And yes, I need to drop the F bomb in this case...
 

dcoscina

Senior Member
By uploading Your Content to the Platform, you also grant a limited, worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, fully paid up, license to other users of the Platform, and to operators and users of any other websites, apps and/or platforms to which Your Content has been shared or embedded using the Services (“Linked Services”), to use, copy, listen to offline, repost, transmit or otherwise distribute, publicly display, publicly perform, adapt, prepare derivative works of, compile, make available and otherwise communicate to the public

Read their terms of use very carefully and consider whether you want to agree to them before posting. [edit: while there are other paragraphs in the user agreement that may be intended to address issues raised here, I personally am not comfortable with this language and would not post on the site]
Hey John, what service would you recommend? I'm genuinely interested. BandCamp is nice but seems more gauged at selling one's material on, rather than a platform to gain further exposure...
 

Mr Pringles

Active Member
I think these platforms are mainly for showcasing. I am actually writing a personal composition (I'm not allowed to put my paid projects "out there") and as you know it, it can take a lot of time. Once it will be finished what will I do with it? Throw it in the garbage or let it die on some SSD bytes? This is a real question. Because honestly by the time I will be finished with the track, I will also be fed up with it and probably won't listen to it anymore or on very rare occasions to showcase. Unfortunately my experience is that friends and family are rarely interested in listening to tracks because it takes too much time compared to, let's say, seeing pro shots photos on Instagram or drawings.

So what do I do with this track? There's no right or wrong answer to this question. In my opinion it's better to throw it on Youtube, Soundcloud, whatever so that at least people can enjoy it even though there's this risk of it being stolen or used without my consent.
 
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JohnG

JohnG

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Hey John, what service would you recommend? I'm genuinely interested. BandCamp is nice but seems more gauged at selling one's material on, rather than a platform to gain further exposure...
Hi David,

I just have stuff on my website and iTunes etc. IDK the best platform for showcasing.

Kind regards,

John
 

dcoscina

Senior Member
I think these platforms are mainly for showcasing. I am actually writing a personal composition (I'm not allowed to put my paid projects "out there") and as you know it, it can take a lot of time. Once it will be finished what will I do with it? Throw it in the garbage or let it die on some SSD bytes? This is a real question. Because honestly by the time I will be finished with the track, I will also be fed up with it and probably won't listen to it anymore or on very rare occasions to showcase. Unfortunately my experience is that friends and family are rarely interested in listening to tracks because it takes too much time compared to, let's say, seeing pro shots photos on Instagram or drawings.

So what do I do with this track? There's no right or wrong answer to this question. In my opinion it's better to throw it on Youtube, Soundcloud, whatever so that at least people can enjoy it even though there's this risk of it being stolen or used without my consent.
yes this is the ongoing debate isn't it? Commercial works for me also don't get showcased on SC and normally it's more or less a place that I use as a sounding board when I'm developing pieces. I rarely if ever put finished work up on there.
 

AllanH

Senior Member
I think these platforms are mainly for showcasing. I am actually writing a personal composition (I'm not allowed to put my paid projects "out there") and as you know it, it can take a lot of time. Once it will be finished what will I do with it? Throw it in the garbage or let it die on some SSD bytes? This is a real question. Because honestly by the time I will be finished with the track, I will also be fed up with it and probably won't listen to it anymore or on very rare occasions to showcase. Unfortunately my experience is that friends and family are rarely interested in listening to tracks because it takes too much time compared to, let's say, seeing pro shots photos on Instagram or drawings.

So what do I do with this track? There's no right or wrong answer to this question. In my opinion it's better to throw it on Youtube, Soundcloud, whatever so that at least people can enjoy it even though there's this risk of it being stolen or used without my consent.
I think that is a great idea. On YouTube, this establishes Content ID so that you could monetize it or at least prevent others from doing so. It might also be worthwhile to register it with the copyright office, so you had some ability to go after anyone attempting to use it without your consent.
 

Markrs

Complete Beginner
I have a Roland FP-10 digital piano and I'm interested in this sort of solution. However, can't afford the Doepfer just yet. Does anyone have experience with building such a solution with a piano that has a taller profile? Would like some inspiration on what is possible.
Wrong thread? As I think you might be referring to Rob Hill's (Westwood) studio transformation thread.
 
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