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Sonuscore's "The Orchestra Complete" and new "Strings of Winter" library

OP
TigerTheFrog

TigerTheFrog

Proud Amateur
Ya going all Gangsta on me Tiger?
?
No, I figured people in this forum would understand what I was getting at with my spiel about the glock. :whistling:
And now that you've had a look at The Orchestra do you still think the arp engine is like Session Strings Pro?
Now that I've played with the Orchestra, I don't. The Rhythm Animator arp in Session Strings Pro only works in the ensemble patch, so you don't have the option of layering different instruments/articulations/octaves into a multi of your choice. However, Session Strings Pro does have an interesting feature that The Orchestra lacks, which is that you can change the articulation on every beat of the arp.

The Phrase Animator in Session Strings Pro gives you an effect similar to The Orchestra (ie different instruments with different arps), but you aren't able to create any of your own. It's just a collection of presets.

The Orchestra allows you to choose 5 instrument/articulations from a choice of around 75 instrument articulation/voices. And then you have 3 possible arps and 2 envelopes. There are other arps out there, but I am quite sure that there is nothing that lets you put together combinations like this in minutes.

As I said before, the Sonuscore libraries are built on the same engine as The Origins series and Mallets Flux. This means you currently supplement your 5-part arps with everything from bowed xylophones to 12-strings, guitar harmonics, oud, qanun, sansula, etc.
 

chocobitz825

Senior Member
I don't know if its been clarified here, but using the standalone kontakt player's midi-out (kontakt virtual output) you can route most midi arpeggiators and rhythm makers into your DAW. So orchestra works like this as well. Only problem is sometimes notes overlap, and for some daws overlapping notes can negate the sound, requiring some trimming. But yeah, nice to take these rhythms and run them through other libraries.
 

Banquet

Member
I don't know if its been clarified here, but using the standalone kontakt player's midi-out (kontakt virtual output) you can route most midi arpeggiators and rhythm makers into your DAW. So orchestra works like this as well. Only problem is sometimes notes overlap, and for some daws overlapping notes can negate the sound, requiring some trimming. But yeah, nice to take these rhythms and run them through other libraries.
That's interesting! But just to clarify, I take it you can't output actual midi data for the arps?

I love the idea of using The Orchestra as an inspiration tool, but, for getting into the composition, ideally I'd like to be able to output the 5 'tracks' onto 5 separate tracks in my DAW, complete with all the midi data the arps and envelopes are producing... Then I could add some variation, etc... and if possible, assign some to other libaries if I wanted to.

If The Orchestra could do that I'd definitely get it!
 

SoNowWhat?

realised I can type here
That's interesting! But just to clarify, I take it you can't output actual midi data for the arps?

I love the idea of using The Orchestra as an inspiration tool, but, for getting into the composition, ideally I'd like to be able to output the 5 'tracks' onto 5 separate tracks in my DAW, complete with all the midi data the arps and envelopes are producing... Then I could add some variation, etc... and if possible, assign some to other libaries if I wanted to.

If The Orchestra could do that I'd definitely get it!
I’ve been waiting for this too. Though at the half price sale I’m still considering it.
 

topaz

Member
It's easy to record the Arps out of Kontakt (VST) in cubase or any DAW that supports VST plugin midi out.

Just mute :

Arp 2/3 to record Arp 1 to new midi track.
Arp 3/1 to record Arp 2 to a new midi track.
Arp 1/2 to record Arp 3 to a new midi track.
 

Banquet

Member
I’ve been waiting for this too. Though at the half price sale I’m still considering it.
Me too, but I feel like for me it’s GAS taking over and that basically what the Arps and envelopes do, I would be better off doing myself in my DAW on each track. It’s not like I can’t already draw an expression envelope in Cubase or copy and paste some arp type patterns.

That being said, despite the low HD size of the library, I think it sounds really good in most of the demos so I think overall it would be well used although if the main reason for library is a big multi patch orchestra played ‘live’ that’s not something I really need.
 

Banquet

Member
It's easy to record the Arps out of Kontakt (VST) in cubase or any DAW that supports VST plugin midi out.

Just mute :

Arp 2/3 to record Arp 1 to new midi track.
Arp 3/1 to record Arp 2 to a new midi track.
Arp 1/2 to record Arp 3 to a new midi track.
Thanks, but will that record the notes I’m playing, or will it record the output of the arps?
 

topaz

Member
I only used this for recording output but I see no reason why you can just use the arp with live input and record the output.

Thanks, but will that record the notes I’m playing, or will it record the output of the arps?
 
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chocobitz825

Senior Member
Thanks, but will that record the notes I’m playing, or will it record the output of the arps?
To clarify what I mean, the kontakt virtual output sends all the midi data of the arp out. So if you play a G chord, the arp rhythm in G would be sent out. I’ll double check but I believe this arp midi would include the velocities and dynamics as well. Only problem is as previously stated, it sends all the orchestra’s multiple Arps out as one consolidated midi track so you’d have to solo each individual arp and record them one by one. Still the end result is nice since you end up with the arp midi to use with other libraries. This works with kontakt’s session strings and horns rhythm Arps, as well as even spitfire’s Ostinatum, or most any other librarie’s similar midi based arp like LASS’s as well. The only essential thing to my knowledge is that you must run the standalone kontakt outside of your DAW with midi out “kontakt virtual output” enabled, and then set that as the input for a midi track within your daw.
 

Banquet

Member
To clarify what I mean, the kontakt virtual output sends all the midi data of the arp out. So if you play a G chord, the arp rhythm in G would be sent out. I’ll double check but I believe this arp midi would include the velocities and dynamics as well. Only problem is as previously stated, it sends all the orchestra’s multiple Arps out as one consolidated midi track so you’d have to solo each individual arp and record them one by one. Still the end result is nice since you end up with the arp midi to use with other libraries. This works with kontakt’s session strings and horns rhythm Arps, as well as even spitfire’s Ostinatum, or most any other librarie’s similar midi based arp like LASS’s as well. The only essential thing to my knowledge is that you must run the standalone kontakt outside of your DAW with midi out “kontakt virtual output” enabled, and then set that as the input for a midi track within your daw.
That does sound useful. Do you know if/how it relates to a new feature that was added in 1.1 patch...

There's a note in the manual that says:
  • [NEW FEATURE] On the mixer page, every instrument slot can now be assigned to a separate output. This makes it possible to mix and edit every individual instrument of the engine inside your DAW.

 

chocobitz825

Senior Member
That does sound useful. Do you know if/how it relates to a new feature that was added in 1.1 patch...

There's a note in the manual that says:
  • [NEW FEATURE] On the mixer page, every instrument slot can now be assigned to a separate output. This makes it possible to mix and edit every individual instrument of the engine inside your DAW.
I believe that only means routing each arp to a different audio out. I do that for many libraries that throw multiple instruments into one instance of the library, or libraries that have multiple mic positions. I don’t believe this means you can route multiple midi data channels out, but should mean you can route the sound of each arp our to different audio outputs/channels.
 

chocobitz825

Senior Member
Here’s the method for midi out of kontakt stand-alone


EDIT: just gave it a quick look over. I believe to get the most out of The Orchestra, you want to use the method in the video, and have it send out midi data and CC data to the outside world. After setting it up as an input in your DAW, I think the quickest method for getting everything is to set up the orchestra and then duplicate it so you end up with 5 instances of The Orchestra in the standalone Kontakt player. It doesnt seem like you can send multiple midi channels out, and if you only solo the instruments within The Orchestra it still sends all the midi for all 5 instruments out in one midi track.

so what you would do is within the five instances, instead of soloing each one, you want to empty the slots of the tracks you dont want soloed. so you'd end up with something like this

Orchestra 1, Violins 1 (other instrument tracks empty) midi ch.1
Orchestra 2, Violins 2 (other tracks empty) midi ch. 2
etc. etc.

When you're ready to record the tracks, set the track you want to record to midi channel 1, and make sure your bpm matches your DAWs BPM. Then you should be able to take each individual arp and its CC info as well.
 
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dzilizzi

I know nothing
It's easy to record the Arps out of Kontakt (VST) in cubase or any DAW that supports VST plugin midi out.

Just mute :

Arp 2/3 to record Arp 1 to new midi track.
Arp 3/1 to record Arp 2 to a new midi track.
Arp 1/2 to record Arp 3 to a new midi track.
It didn't work for The Orchestra. Somehow there are a lot of excess notes that come out. At least not when I tried it. I did it in Cubase. I may try it in ProTools to see if a simpler midi editor will only pick up what is played. But I won't have time until this weekend.
 

chocobitz825

Senior Member
It didn't work for The Orchestra. Somehow there are a lot of excess notes that come out. At least not when I tried it. I did it in Cubase. I may try it in ProTools to see if a simpler midi editor will only pick up what is played. But I won't have time until this weekend.
even if you mute the other instruments, the date still gets sent. you have to empty any instruments you dont want on the track.
 
OP
TigerTheFrog

TigerTheFrog

Proud Amateur
If you watch the first set of YouTube reviews of The Orchestra, you'll see that most of the main critiques were addressed in version 1.1.

So all that needs to be done if for Sonuscore to hear from their customers (or potential customers) that drag-to-MIDI is their number one request.

But do remember that The Orchestra patches are 5 different instruments (chosen from 75 instruments/articulations), each of which can be assigned one of 3 different arps or one of two different envelopes. While you could easily drag one arp out if that feature was added, it would be more of a job to drag out the kind of multi-patches that can be put together in The Orchestra in minutes.

I get it, people want to pull out all the arps one by one and swap them with sounds they prefer. To me this misses the whole point of the Engine, which is its ability to be quickly changed in infinite ways, with different orchestral colors, octaves, envelopes, and arp patterns.
 

chocobitz825

Senior Member
If you watch the first set of YouTube reviews of The Orchestra, you'll see that most of the main critiques were addressed in version 1.1.

So all that needs to be done if for Sonuscore to hear from their customers (or potential customers) that drag-to-MIDI is their number one request.

But do remember that The Orchestra patches are 5 different instruments (chosen from 75 instruments/articulations), each of which can be assigned one of 3 different arps or one of two different envelopes. While you could easily drag one arp out if that feature was added, it would be more of a job to drag out the kind of multi-patches that can be put together in The Orchestra in minutes.

I get it, people want to pull out all the arps one by one and swap them with sounds they prefer. To me this misses the whole point of the Engine, which is its ability to be quickly changed in infinite ways, with different orchestral colors, octaves, envelopes, and arp patterns.
I don't think I've seen many developers who utilize this type of arp that does midi drag and drop. I'm not sure but I think the engine necessary for drag and drop is different. Either way, this is probably why the midi out option is the best compromise. You dont end up dragging out a fixed chord midi loop. you can do a full performance with chord changes and have that all come out with the CC and velocity data intact.
 

rrichard63

Perpetual Novice
Other than the sound of the instruments and the hall they are recorded in (which I like a lot), is there anything I can do with the ensemble patch in The Orchestra that I can't do (with a lot more effort) with Cthulhu or Kirnu Cream or Thesys in front of a Kontakt multi?
 
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