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Solo woodwinds for orchestral music?

jaketanner

Senior Member
by the way, sorry about this but i'll like to ask about BWW. How many of you actually load up the individual woodwinds to create woodwinds ensemble? for example, load up flute 1, flute 2 and flute 3 to create flute ensemble a3? Do you find the sound muffled?
Regardless of which library, combining solo instruments does not make for an ensemble sound. There is a certain tone that's only had when more than one is playing at a time. You might be able to fake it, but not the same. So I'd say to stick with any ensemble patch when you want them, and solos for first chairs or when you actually need a solo.
 

constaneum

Senior Member
Regardless of which library, combining solo instruments does not make for an ensemble sound. There is a certain tone that's only had when more than one is playing at a time. You might be able to fake it, but not the same. So I'd say to stick with any ensemble patch when you want them, and solos for first chairs or when you actually need a solo.
So Berlin Woodwinds wont be able to create a nice ensemble patch eh. Then i'll wait for CSW.
 
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mikefrommontreal

mikefrommontreal

Active Member
OP
mikefrommontreal

mikefrommontreal

Active Member
Do you still use your Berlin Expansion B for solos, or are you now using Auddict?


Also, I just want to male sure the OP knows Berlin Woodwinds Expansions are almost certainly going on sale this month as part of the Completion Days Sale. Hope you didn't buy it days before it went on discount!
Haha, thanks! that was thoughtful of you. No, I had a feeling that it might be part of it, so I'm waiting to see.
 

constaneum

Senior Member
just listened to their demos .. the woodwinds really sound stunning. Do you know which strings Phil Chapavich Temnitikul was using on "You Could Make Me Smile"? Venice strings? but it sounds smoother .. absolutely stunning as well (especially after 0.58)
Venice strings havent even been released at that time, right ?
 

borisb2

Member
not sure .. also, the venice strings demos sound a tiny bit more metallic/harsh .. in that mentioned ww-demo the strings really sound almost .. perfect
 

jaketanner

Senior Member
So Berlin Woodwinds wont be able to create a nice ensemble patch eh. Then i'll wait for CSW.
My experience has been that solo instruments sound a bit separated. if you want an a3 patch, it needs to be recorded as one. But BWW are great from what I’ve heard, don’t own them. But it can be faked with reverb and perhaps BWW blend well together. But I’m general there is a difference....slight as it may be.
 

Land of Missing Parts

No Time for Honky-Tonk
Haha, thanks! that was thoughtful of you. No, I had a feeling that it might be part of it, so I'm waiting to see.
I was wondering what @constaneum meant about the flute, and then I came across an old post with some Berlin Woodwind Expansion B audio examples.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/bww-exp-b-flute-testing-mp3.20720/][/AUDIOPLUS]

To my ear, the BWW soloist choke on some of those legato transitions, though maybe that could be finessed with the tweaking of crescendos/decrescendos, as I think it's the sudden attacks that are off. And maybe there have been updates since 2015 that address some of the issues.
 

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purple

Member
I was wondering what @constaneum meant about the flute, and then I came across an old post with some Berlin Woodwind Expansion B audio examples.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/bww-exp-b-flute-testing-mp3.20720/][/AUDIOPLUS]

To my ear, the BWW soloist choke on some of those legato transitions, though maybe that could be finessed with the tweaking of crescendos/decrescendos, as I think it's the sudden attacks that are off. And maybe there have been updates since 2015 that address some of the issues.

It leaves me with the impression that BWW Exp B has a natural sound that, at its best, is the top choice out there for expressive solos. But I also get the impression that the results are inconsistent and that sometimes there will be lumps in the performance that you simply cannot iron out.
Is this really the smoothest it can be? Or is this a quick mockup? Honestly kind of shocked because I've heard some great stuff from people claiming to use BWW.
 

Land of Missing Parts

No Time for Honky-Tonk
Is this really the smoothest it can be? Or is this a quick mockup? Honestly kind of shocked because I've heard some great stuff from people claiming to use BWW.
Make sure to check the original post. It was a live performance, so I think you should take it as a quick mockup. That said, it's an instrument that is made to sound good out of the box and doesn't offer much ability to tweak, as best as I can tell. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is an instrument that just has some lumps in it. Or maybe I'm being too critical? It is rather exposed after all.

EDIT: After some more close listens, I've changed my mind on this. I think the legato transitions are good and I'm generally impressed with the way Berlin WW Exp B sounds.

Not a fan of the buckets of reverb they poured on it. I wish they'd just present the raw instrument in the clear. You know...intimate.
 
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constaneum

Senior Member
Make sure to check the original post. It was a live performance, so I think you should take it as a quick mockup. That said, it's an instrument that is made to sound good out of the box and doesn't offer much ability to tweak, as best as I can tell. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is an instrument that just has some lumps in it. Or maybe I'm being too critical? It is rather exposed after all.


Not a fan of the buckets of reverb they poured on it. I wish they'd just present the raw instrument in the clear. You know...intimate.
it was indeed a quick mockup. The legato itself is actually quite good but the sound of the flute sampled is a bit not my taste. To me, the flute sounds a bit "depressing" at the lower notes....sound wise, i think Auddict's flute sounds nicer (a bit brighter and more cheerful).
 

Shad0wLandsUK

Senior Member
This is just a side thought, because I'm not even at the stage where I could play a convincing WW line, still studying string articulations. I have a course by Groove3.com called Orchestral Library Toolbox which is two German guys (w/voiceover translator) doing an 11-hour course on orchestration with Cubase. It's insanely good for new guys like me. At one point they play in some WW lines using I think VSL and/or Cinesamples woodwinds, can't remember. The WW lines were first played on a keyboard (on purpose) and they sounded good but you were still convincing yourself it was real. Then they showed what it sounds like with a breath controller where you blow in but still choose the notes on the keyboard, and THAT sounded much more realistic, using the same library. Then they pulled out the Akai EWI and handed it to someone who can play a woodwind and it was like a real instrument, off the chart. No change in library. if anything, once I get to woodwinds in my late-night study which is moving at glacier speed, I'm going to at least consider the breath controller, even THAT seems to make a huge difference over keys. Having said that I'm quite sure there are seasoned composers who have the feel of the expression slider down so well that a breath controller isn't necessary. I was just amazed what a difference it seemed to make and might be something to consider if you're in Freshman year like me.
Got your Toolbox set, but it also gave me the Orchestral Bundle deal.. so got that too :D
Was a steal... then another few vids too!
 

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Land of Missing Parts

No Time for Honky-Tonk
it was indeed a quick mockup. The legato itself is actually quite good but the sound of the flute sampled is a bit not my taste. To me, the flute sounds a bit "depressing" at the lower notes....sound wise, i think Auddict's flute sounds nicer (a bit brighter and more cheerful).
Thanks, I understand what you mean now. If Auddict were to offer their flute as a standalone product, I would have my eye on that.
 
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