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Sketching orchestra-Vienna smart or Red room palette?

Rey

Active Member
Hi. I am looking to get either of this. I only have strings library and no woodwinds/solo strings/brass. Hopefully with the included woodwinds and brass in either of this will help the missing part. And im also not going to go do eastwest sub thing. Until I have the budget to get the full woodwinds and brass , I feel like I should get either of this. Also for quick sketch and inspiration. Im just a hobbyist. So nothing is for commercial. Just fun and nice sounds.

What would you suggest. Any recommendation appreciated.

I also already have a Steinberg key.

Thanks
 

ScoreFace

Active Member
Are you looking for single nkis for each orchestral instrument group or do you like mixed orchestral sounds as well?

I like starting my compositions with a few big mixed ensemble sounds, like full low brass or high stacc string ensemble - working like this, it is easier for me to get my ideas sketched quickly. I'm using patches from The Orchestra mainly, as it is the easiest way for me to realize an idea.

Berlin Inspire could be interesting for you as well.
 

Shiirai

Avian Member
Hm. That would depend on what your budget actually is.

When I made that decision, I went with Palette, but it was on sale and I got the Melodics Pack as well. I love it and I know of all the choices I could've made this was the right one. The base pack has a good amount of different instruments (more than you would find in other, similar packages), the main orchestra is clear and dry and it comes with 4 mic positions. The dryness will make it easier to eventually layer the library. You'll need a decent reverb though, or use the internal one.

I find the expansion packs a plus in case I ever need samples like that, and they'll fit perfectly with what I already have. I really like the added combinations and solo's included in the Melodics pack.

That said, I also got Amadeus simply because it inspires me (and it fit within my budget while it was on sale).

I didn't go for Berlin Inspire because I found it limiting (it's rather wet), although it sounds awesome out of the box.

EDIT: I feel the need to mention Sonokinetic's Ostinato Strings, Brass and Woodwinds. They are limited, as they are only useful for ostinatos but they are also reasonably priced and knowing they exist may prove fun or useful someday ;). Needless to say, I love Sonokinetic.

Also, apparently I was wrong about the iLok think so I removed it.
 
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Rey

Active Member
Are you looking for single nkis for each orchestral instrument group or do you like mixed orchestral sounds as well?

I like starting my compositions with a few big mixed ensemble sounds, like full low brass or high stacc string ensemble - working like this, it is easier for me to get my ideas sketched quickly. I'm using patches from The Orchestra mainly, as it is the easiest way for me to realize an idea.

Berlin Inspire could be interesting for you as well.
Hi. Thank you for recommending The orchestra. I almost forgot about that one. I don't mind single nkis or mixed orchestral sounds, all I am looking for is for good sound quality, maybe something close to full blown expensive orchestral vsts? I probably will be using it for more than a year and long term. Will be quite a while I guess until I have the budget, experience and desire to decide which woodwinds and brass to get. I like strings sound very much so I already have invested in them with Spitfire Chamber strings and another. But for woodwinds and brass I am abit clueless, but I still need to use those parts for orchestral parts that utilize them. Also the ability to isolate solo sections like woodwinds to sound more like flute and brass to sound more like horn only or trombone or trumpet only will be a nice addition. I will definitely keep an eye out for the orchestra.
 
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Rey

Active Member
Hm. That would depend on what your budget actually is.

When I made that decision, I went with Palette, but it was on sale and I got the Melodics Pack as well. I love it and I know of all the choices I could've made this was the right one. The base pack has a good amount of different instruments (more than you would find in other, similar packages), the main orchestra is clear and dry and it comes with 4 mic positions. The dryness will make it easier to eventually layer the library. You'll need a decent reverb though, or use the internal one.

I find the expansion packs a plus in case I ever need samples like that, and they'll fit perfectly with what I already have. I really like the added combinations and solo's included in the Melodics pack.

That said, I also got Amadeus simply because it inspires me (and it fit within my budget while it was on sale).

I didn't go for Berlin Inspire because I found it limiting (it's rather wet), although it sounds awesome out of the box.

Btw, Vienna needs an iLok key and I don't think that's the same as a Steinberg key. Vienna wasn't an option for me as I despise iLok.

EDIT: I feel the need to mention Sonokinetic's Ostinato Strings, Brass and Woodwinds. They are limited, as they are only useful for ostinatos but they are also reasonably priced and knowing they exist may prove fun or useful someday ;). Needless to say, I love Sonokinetic..
ah same here I despise using all these dongles and ilok stuffs. I am more keen in investing into softwares that don't require them.
I have been trying the demo version palette colors(with limited articulation) do orchestral sounds do sound really nice and high quality.
I would love to get amadeus, but sound quality wise does it compare to palette sketchpad and Vienna?

@Shiirai I was also reading your post somewhere about sketching orchestra, you did mention about cinesymphony lite. Do you have it?
How does the sound quality compare to palette colors and melodics?
I like the fact that you can isolate parts using the advance controls like flute or clarinet only for woodwinds and same for brass using the knobs for different orchestral instruments in Cinesymphony lite. does it work as expected?
 
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ScoreFace

Active Member
Hi. Thank you for recommending The orchestra. I almost forgot about that one. I don't mind single nkis or mixed orchestral sounds, all I am looking for is for good sound quality, maybe something close to full blown expensive orchestral vsts? I probably will be using it for more than a year and long term. Will be quite a while I guess until I have the budget, experience and desire to decide which woodwinds and brass to get. I like strings sound very much so I already have invested in them with Spitfire Chamber strings and another. But for woodwinds and brass I am abit clueless, but I still need to use those parts for orchestral parts that utilize them. Also the ability to isolate solo sections like woodwinds to sound more like flute and brass to sound more like horn only or trombone or trumpet only will be a nice addition. I will definitely keep an eye out for the orchestra.
Best would be that you watch their Tutorial on Youtube - it is very long and you'll get a very good impression of what is in there and how it sounds. For me, it is my new to-go-lib and I really love it, but you have to check if you like the sound of the instruments as much as I do. It seems not as clean and polished as most other libraries, which is both bad and good, depending on what you're looking for:).
 
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Ben

VSL Support
VSL software can't be used with iLok. You need an eLicenser dongle from Steinberg.
 
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ptram

Senior Member
With VSL, the Steinberg key is perfectly fine. It is the same as the Vienna Key.

VSL SE is rarely considered a sketching orchestra, but it can be. It is lightweight, and with VI PRO you can create your own ensemble patches as you like. An ensemble orchestral string patch is already included.

However, I agree that making your own patches is a bit different from letting it do to professionals. Not everyone may feel inclined to create one. But it is an easy and instructive task.

Another issue to be considered, with VSL SE, is that it comes dry. You can create a template, either with the reverb supplied by your DAW, or use VSL's own MIR/MIRx. Here, again, you have to create your own setup.

Paolo
 
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Rey

Active Member
With VSL, the Steinberg key is perfectly fine. It is the same as the Vienna Key.

VSL SE is rarely considered a sketching orchestra, but it can be. It is lightweight, and with VI PRO you can create your own ensemble patch as you like. An ensemble orchestral string patch is already included.

However, I agree that making your own ensemble patch is a bit different from letting it do to professionals. Not everyone may feel inclined to create one. But it is an easy and instructive task.

Another issue to be considered, with VSL SE, is that it comes dry. You can create a template, either with the reverb supplied by your DAW, or use VSL's own MIR/MIRx. Here, again, you have to create your own setup.

Paolo
Thank you Paolo for the recommendation. I will definitely consider VSL SE also for now instead of Vienna Smart Orchestra. I am sure VSL SE offers better sound?
My only problem I am not really familiar with VSL. Currently I only have VSL Soprana Saxophone which is awesome.
If there is a video or guide line somewhere i'd appreciate if you can link here about creating an ensemble patch using VI PRO as you suggested.
 

ptram

Senior Member
I am sure VSL SE offers better sound?
Well, Smart Orchestra is less than 10 GB, whereas the full SE series is more than 110 GB. Even the core SE Vol.1+Plus is 39 GB. It is very likely SE sounds better than Smart Orchestra, and I would say that this is evident from the demos.

While I have switched to the full collection, I still consider SE a great value, and (together with VI PRO and MIR) a complete package for anyone not needing the finest detail. If you are looking for a classical symphonic sound, it sounds great, and does a lot. And upgrading to some full instruments means recovering what you spent for the SE equivalent.

Probably, the easiest guide to making ensembles is the video tutorial dedicated to the Inspiration Presets:


Other useful informations are in the introduction to the library and player:


Paolo
 
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Ben

VSL Support
Smart Orchestra and SE are based on the same samples. I don't want to say one sounds better then the other. Whats best for you depends on what you plan to do. If you primarly want to use it for sketching Smart Orchestra suits you best. If you want more control over the sound and need more instruments go with SE. But keep in mind that SE is far more complicated in use (many articulations, dry sound) and you need a good reverb to make it sound great. SO comes already with panning and IR build in.

(also you are a little bit late: from the 01.12-7.01 SE was 25% off + there was a buy three vouchers, get one for free thing.
SO is 30€ off this month.
VSL has often sales; if you want something specific and you can wait you can save 25-30%)
 
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Rey

Active Member
Well, Smart Orchestra is less than 10 GB, whereas the full SE series is more than 110 GB. Even the core SE Vol.1+Plus is 39 GB. It is very likely SE sounds better than Smart Orchestra, and I would say that this is evident from the demos.

While I have switched to the full collection, I still consider SE a great value, and (together with VI PRO and MIR) a complete package for anyone not needing the finest detail. If you are looking for a classical symphonic sound, it sounds great, and does a lot. And upgrading to some full instruments means recovering what you spent for the SE equivalent.

Probably, the easiest guide to making ensembles is the video tutorial dedicated to the Inspiration Presets:


Other useful informations are in the introduction to the library and player:


Paolo
Smart Orchestra and SE are based on the same samples. I don't want to say one sounds better then the other. Whats best for you depends on what you plan to do. If you primarly want to use it for sketching Smart Orchestra suits you best. If you want more control over the sound and need more instruments go with SE. But keep in mind that SE is far more complicated in use (many articulations, dry sound) and you need a good reverb to make it sound great. SO comes already with panning and
IR build in.

(also you are a little bit late: from the 01.12-7.01 SE was 25% off + there was a buy three vouchers, get one for free thing.
SO is 30€ off this month.
VSL has often sales; if you want something specific and you can wait you can save 25-30%)
Thank you. I will keep checking on VSL SE for sales. which version of VSL SE do you guys have?
 

Ben

VSL Support
Thank you. I will keep checking on VSL SE for sales. which version of VSL SE do you guys have?
I started with SE 1 + 2 and bought the other things on the next sale.
After that I upgraded step by step to the Full Collections (depending whats on sale).

SE is a really good starting point: Many instruments and articulations. But you need a good reverb and some mixing skills.
(My advice: After you are familiar with the instruments and how the player works, get the free 30 days trial of VSL MIR Pro.)
 
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ptram

Senior Member
I followed a similar path. Hadn't I decided to go for the full collections, I would also had probably added SE 3, containing a more extensive set of Appassionata Strings articulations, and the muted strings.

VI PRO is nearly a must, due to its ability of limiting an instrument's extension and volume to make custom ensembles, and humanization, useful to make up for the limited number of round robins in SE.

MIR/24 would also be a great addition, for how easy it makes mixing orchestral sounds. The /24 version may be enough, by letting you apply reverb/placement to sections instead of individual instruments.

Since it seems unavoidable that getting SE will sooner or later tempt you to get the more expensive full collections, please also check VSL's competitors, to see how you like the sound of their complete instruments. I'm thinking to Spitfire, Orchestral Tools, Chris Hein, East West and the many others discussed in this forum. They also usually have inexpensive started kits.

For the way I work, VSL has the advantage of a very customizable player, and the type of sound better fitting my ideas. It is somewhat more difficult to manage, but if dealing with SE you might be happy with what comes as standard.

Paolo
 
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