Sitting On A Yoga Ball ?

Dewdman42

Senior Member
Hermann Miller in general is a great office chair company that has been making some of the best products available for a long time. I trust them completely. Not all of their chairs work for everyone, in my experience. But in general they are very high quality chairs with attention too ergonomics. If you can find an actual Hermann-Miller dealer that has a wide selection of their products on a showroom floor, you will probably go home with one of them. IMHO.

I don't know if there is a single works-best-for-everyone chair out there.

Lately I've been seeing ads for gaming chairs and people saying its the most comfortable chair they have ever used. I know I can sit in the car seat of my Audi for literally hours at a time and make long drives for 12 hour shots, etc.. and my back might even feel better at the end then before because of its absolutely perfect ergonomics. My previous Audi was the same way. If I could get my Audi driver seat in a desk chair I probably would call it the final answer. The gaming chairs seem to be more like car seats...hugging the person a bit more, etc. so I don't know, I want to try one of those. But I have never seen them on any showroom floor to try.

My other issue is this, I like arm rests a lot. They positively get in the way when I'm using my guitar.

I'm setting up a new studio room and I plan to arrange it with a motorized desk that goes up and down and while I will have a primary keyboard in front of the computer that I use a lot, I will also have a set of keyboards to the side that I could play sitting or standing. And just move around more throughout the day. That is what the PT's keep telling me. just move around more and all will be fine.

In my previous life I was a software dev in silicon valley working seven 15 hour days a week...and suffice it to say, it took a toll on my back and posture. I was not attentive to these things in those years when I was young and full of confidence that I'll be fine. 25 years and two back surgeries later, I wish I had been more attentive to this topic in my 20's and 30's, and 40's. In my 40's I became more attentive and things are better now...but in the end, it comes down to moving around a lot, and not slumping and keeping all the various muscles moving, stretching, mobile...as much as possible.

Another thing is getting the computer display at exactly the right height. People that have issues in their hands and arms sometimes is because they are straining their neck to look at their display non-ergonomically. Makes a huge difference for me.

I want to hear more about midi keyboard ergonomics, height, etc. where to put the computer keyboard in relation to that, etc, etc, etc. then we add touchpad and CC faders and all that stuff and pretty soon..whew..its hard to find the best chair solution and desk to handle it all.
 

Auddict

Senior Member
+1 for sit/stand desks. We built my new studio desk to go up and down, only issue is perfect mixing position is at sitting position.... but for composing or anything else, can easily alternate
 

Dewdman42

Senior Member
I'm trying to arrange my new desk so that the monitors will be on the desk so that they go up and down too. But as I get into wider and wider displays, this may turn out to not be possible in the end. We shall see.
 

Nick Batzdorf

Moderator
Moderator
+1 for sit/stand desks
Another example of how our bodies are all different.

My back hurts when I stand for a long time. I don't have a bad back or anything, it just hurts (and did when I was in my 20s, so it's not an age thing).

Other people swear by them, obviously including Auddict.
 

Nick Batzdorf

Moderator
Moderator
I'm trying to arrange my new desk so that the monitors will be on the desk so that they go up and down too. But as I get into wider and wider displays, this may turn out to not be possible in the end. We shall see.
Post a scribble of your setup, or send me one in a PM. I can show you one good way to do it.
 

Auddict

Senior Member
Another example of how our bodies are all different.

My back hurts when I stand for a long time. I don't have a bad back or anything, it just hurts (and did when I was in my 20s, so it's not an age thing).

Other people swear by them, obviously including Auddict.
No that’s actually a really valid point - I usually don’t stand longer than 20 minutes, otherwise yes I also start to get some kind of cramps/pains. Apparently it’s the constant changing in position which is healthy, whereas sitting for ages and standing for ages are both not ideal. So yeah definitely agree with you on that one
 

Dewdman42

Senior Member
its actually a critical feature that the desk is motorized to go up and down, like I said earlier..moving around often is key. You can't always stand, or you get other problems. In fact walking around is better then sitting, but standing is not. Ideally you change it up throughout the day. Stand for a while, walk around the studio more, sit for a while, change the seat settings from straight up to leaning back, and visa versa, etc.. Movement and change is the key.
 

kitekrazy

Senior Member

I have this on a cheap small computer desk as an impromptu standing desk. I've learned you have to train yourself to standing after spending a lifetime of sitting.
 

Auddict

Senior Member
its actually a critical feature that the desk is motorized to go up and down, like I said earlier..moving around often is key. You can't always stand, or you get other problems. In fact walking around is better then sitting, but standing is not. Ideally you change it up throughout the day. Stand for a while, walk around the studio more, sit for a while, change the seat settings from straight up to leaning back, and visa versa, etc.. Movement and change is the key.
Spot on
 

chimuelo

Star Of Stage & Screen
Actually I have a different perspective. :)

These are the desks I make, a variation of the one someone else made that I've been working at all day long for a good 20 years:

I didn’t know this was your work. Always liked these, reminds me of when I did sit and play but because my feet were needed and bass pedals required my legs be together like squeezing the tank of a Motocross bike as I “kicked” bass.

What a great desk, it’s so Hammond-ish...
 

Tim_Wells

Tim Wells
I will forever insist that this endless search for ways to fix our issues of sitting for long periods of time will be solved for every healthy bodied individual by starting resistance training of some kind.

"Magically" when my squat got over 315lbs and my deadlift over 405lbs all my wrist pain, my back pain, my anything pain, went away. The most current research on pain and how to treat it is all saying in most cases... get stronger.

Assuming you don't have a physical reason why this is not possible, start working out with some sort of resistance training today, I can't properly express how transformative it has been.

I'm stronger, healthier, live pain free from issues that plagued me for years, and am able to write more frequently and more focused by having something away from music that recharges me and makes my physical and mental endurance stronger for the writing process.
Our bodies are much stronger than people think. For so many years people were afraid of bending the wrong way, or lifting too much, or sitting in the wrong kind of chair, or not having the keyboard at the right angle, etc., etc. IMO, these kinds of beliefs actually exasperate pain problems. I know. I lived through it myself and had all kinds of chronic pain issues. Not anymore, thanks to a doctor named John Sarno who set me straight.

That said, one of these chairs for building core strength is intriguing.
 

dzilizzi

I just hang around pretending I know something
While I have never tried any of these pulsed eloctro magnetic field therapy devices the russians have been using them for years for inflamation and pain management ( among other things) and I've heard good things about them.If you google Pulsed Electromagnetic Field therapy ( PEMF therapy) you should find some info...
ok back to music!
Like a TENS device? They used that on my neck at the PT place. It felt good, but for my neck, the rack, I mean the stretcher thing worked better. I don't think it helps with nerve issues. They basically told me they could do surgery, but since there was no nerve damage, it was not recommended.
 

MartinH.

Senior Member
Almost every keyboard controller is under 6" thick (most of them well under that), and it works fine.

For the couple of outliers that are thicker, I'd just make the desktop slope down like a drafting table, and come up with a locking mechanism to stop it from sliding or find the right hardware. (My first thought is a dowel with a spring, but I'd have to think about that if it came up. So far it hasn't.)
Still not what I meant :D.

While I have never tried any of these pulsed eloctro magnetic field therapy devices the russians have been using them for years for inflamation and pain management ( among other things) and I've heard good things about them.If you google Pulsed Electromagnetic Field therapy ( PEMF therapy) you should find some info...
I just googled that and found a video where a doctor shoved an LED up his nose and talked about "intravenous lasers". Seemed wildly esoteric to me.


Like a TENS device? They used that on my neck at the PT place. It felt good, but for my neck, the rack, I mean the stretcher thing worked better. I don't think it helps with nerve issues. They basically told me they could do surgery, but since there was no nerve damage, it was not recommended.
I believe TENS can be applied for nerve pain, but not as a fix, only as a way to overload the nerve with signals that block out the pain or something like that. It can help indirectly fix nerve pain issues when a nerve is pinched through a rip joint blockage caused by stiff muscles and you use the TENs device to relax the cause of the blockage so that it can snap back and release the pinched nerve.

The first TENs device we bought was terrible and we had to return it. Iirc it was too strong at too low of a frequency, and poorly adjustable, making it just painful. Then I bought a different one that had more manual settings for frequency and pulse width, and analog dials for intensity and that was a lot more comfortable. But I think the TENs devices are only good for fairly specific usecases and you should invest in a good handheld massager that you can reach your back and neck with first. Something like this:
1574688423233.png

It has "infra red LEDs", though I could swear they are for placebo only.
 

Nick Batzdorf

Moderator
Moderator
Still not what I meant :D.
What I meant is my response to what you meant! The concept really does work, pretty much regardless of your keyboard's footprint in any dimension or how tall you are.

Again, I get that you personally aren't going to be a customer. That puts you in the same category as most people in the world. :)

But I'm still going to correct objections you raise when they're not right, because I've experimented a lot and thought through them all over many years.
 

Nick Batzdorf

Moderator
Moderator
^ That includes many setups that were a total failure, such as a corner desk + wings and a CRT monitor on an arm so it could move from front to side positions.

This is from about 15 years ago, before I had a woodworker build my current desk (the prototype). It was my first sliding desktop setup. The Ultimate Support Thinkertoy hardware was great, but this was still a little rickety compared to a real wooden one.
 

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MartinH.

Senior Member
What I meant is my response to what you meant! The concept really does work, pretty much regardless of your keyboard's footprint in any dimension or how tall you are.

Again, I get that you personally aren't going to be a customer. That puts you in the same category as most people in the world. :)

But I'm still going to correct objections you raise when they're not right, because I've experimented a lot and thought through them all over many years.
I never had any doubt that the midi Keyboard would fit into the compartment designed to fit a midi Keyboard into :). What I meant is that right now I have about 8cm between the upper side of my leg and the surface of my mousepad (which is only 4 mm thick), and it still feels like the mouse rests a little too high for me (about 1cm lower might be ideal) and I also would enjoy having more upwards legroom to sit differently too.
My new chair is raised by 7 cm. Before I did that, I got shoulder pain from the mouse and keyboard being too high. I couldn't lower the table further, so I raised the chair (it's not height adjustable).


This is from about 15 years ago, before I had a woodworker build my current desk (the prototype). The Ultimate Support Thinkertoy hardware was great, but this was still a little rickety compared to a real wooden one.
Thanks for posting that! I'd be very interested to see pics of a couple more iterations if you have them!

I think that picture possibly explains why you don't have the issue I was worried about with your design: based on the photo I guess you have your legs at an angle (knees pointing below horizon line) that my chair doesn't support as well as yours. The way I sit the knees roughly point towards the horizon. I like chairs that have a slightly tilted back seat, and having the legs up rather high than low.


The Ultimate Support Thinkertoy hardware was great, but this was still a little rickety compared to a real wooden one.
Can you recommend any "parts system" that lends itself to prototyping furniture that isn't too expensive? I'd think ideally some clamp system that works with standard aluminum piping that you can cut to the right length yourself if needed?
 

Nick Batzdorf

Moderator
Moderator
If the space between the underside of your keyboard and your legs is an issue, I'd suggest getting some angle steel supported at the sides. You probably only need to support the back of the keyboard, because its own frame should be enough to hold it up.
 

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Nick Batzdorf

Moderator
Moderator
Angle steel. You could probably use aluminum too if it's thick enough, because the vertical side stiffens the whole thing due to... well, a picture is worth 1000 words.

And if you need support at the front, most keyboards have a couple of inches between their undersides and the bottoms of their white keys, so you could just use another angle steel (or aluminum) bar.

1574722922631.png

Unfortunately, Ultimate Support doesn't make that stuff anymore. The company that bought them found it too expensive to stock all the miscellaneous parts.

Their A-frame keyboard stands were everywhere in the '80s and early '90s.