Should we be waiting for O T new sampler.

Discussion in 'SAMPLE Talk' started by novaburst, Apr 15, 2019.

  1. VinRice

    VinRice ... i am a robot ...

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    It seems clear to me that you will be able to point to your existing OT libraries in the new player and they will just show up. New samples will be purchasable on a modular basis in the player itself. Now whether this will be from the existing range we don't know. Whether this will be on an individual sample set basis or as 'collections' we don't know.

    This is a very customer-friendly but risky move for OT. Firstly, the player has to compete in efficiency and feature set with Kontakt, and that ain't easy as Spitfire knows. Secondly its going to be a labour-intensive or hi-end scripting job to package potentially thousands of separate sample sets for purchase and download. Thirdly, it increases the risk of not covering your costs on a particular recording and cutting session if it turns out that only a few articulations out of a hundred are popular and nobody wants the rest. Plus OT pay player royalties and you can see how that could become a bit of minefield in this scenario.

    It will be interesting to see how it pans out and from a user perspective it is of course to be welcomed. If it's sensible and logical and perceived as good value (which OT aren't really known for at this point) it gives them real leverage against Spitfire who would be unlikely to go for this sort of arrangement - at least until they were forced to.
     
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  2. shawnsingh

    shawnsingh Active Member

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    Wouldn't that mean that the OT sample player would be able to read the Native Instruments sample format? I would have assumed we would have to re-download new content, but I'm hopeful that we don't have to re-purchase.
     
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  3. OP
    OP
    novaburst

    novaburst Senior Member

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    My guess is that they would need to rerecord the existing library's so that it works in the new player,

    This may or may not give the samples a different tone and character, feel
     
  4. Lukas

    Lukas Keyboardist / composer

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    I'm sure that must be it o_O

    No. No other sampler than Kontakt can read complete Kontakt Player libraries.

    You have to re-download something in order to use an "old" library in the new sampler. Maybe the sampler / sample player makes this comfortable to do by detecting which libraries are installed and directly allowing to download them.
     
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  5. erica-grace

    erica-grace Senior Member

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    No way they are going to go back and re-record anything, let alone everything. :)
     
  6. shawnsingh

    shawnsingh Active Member

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    I'm not convinced that they'd need to re record everything. Maybe they'd only need to re-edit / re-cut samples from their already recorded sessions. Which phase of development is more costly - the recording or editing? Probably the recording sessions are the major cost? All speculation on my part.

    For me, the exciting part is the potential of the on-the-fly audio processing to make legato and release samples work well. I hope there could be some magic audio processing that could also help deal with crossfading between velocity layers too.
     
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  7. VinRice

    VinRice ... i am a robot ...

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    You are right of course. I expect we would have to re-download in an OT proprietary format for the sampler, though I don't know what advantage that would be - updates perhaps to encourage it? Won't stop your original from working in Kontakt though.
     
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  8. OP
    OP
    novaburst

    novaburst Senior Member

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    from my experience from using the same library in different samplers there can be a big difference in sound quality and tone,

    VSL first developed SyS but needed to make it work in the Vienna instrument first for over a year but the advantage was that the player was in development so they had an idea what they needed to do.

    in saying this there is a tone difference between the new player and the instrument i have them both now on my system but prefer the sound and tone of the Vienna instrument the new player is
    acceptable

    the OT library has been around for a few years now and 100 percent of the focus and recordings would have been for kontakt,

    This new development from OT appears to be after things were at full swing with kontackt and no sign or thought of any new player or sampler, i am not so sure you can use the same type of recording you developed for one sampler then expect it to sound better in another sampler because that,s what they must aim for it must be an upscale not a down scale or it becomes fruitless,

    for that to happen there needs to be changes in the recording signal, or you may get a undesired result.
     
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  9. brenneisen

    brenneisen Active Member

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    you obviously can, they're just wav files...
     
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  10. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon KSP Wizard

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    Yes, they'd just need to reprogram it for their sampler. Recording costs a LOT, they are not insane to go back to Teldex to rerecord everything.

    Yeah.

    Different gain staging within the patch, different resampling algorithms (if used), different filters, different way how modulation works, different ways to program the patch, all that can influence the sound of the library with using exactly the same samples.
     
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  11. OP
    OP
    novaburst

    novaburst Senior Member

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    a lot of processing can kill a desired outcome, recording %100 is perhaps to much.

    copy and past is more reasonable and may stop you from calling the entire orchestra back only if you can get your desired outcome yes a recording is a recording but it depends where you want to go with it as there is only so much you can do with the original wave file, and if your going to process the hell out of it that will bring an undesired outcome.

    better recording or breakthrough ideas in ways to achieve a better sound, tone, by usage of revolutionized gear may mean you need to do the whole thing again hence the cost can be given to the buyer.

    in saying this there is nothing to stop OT from doing there desired outcome in say Berlin Strings 2, or Berlin Brass 2 and so on.
     
  12. Simon Ravn

    Simon Ravn Senior Member

    Why would you need to process the hell out of it to host it inside a new sampler? It probably wasn't processed much to begin with, so they are likely to sound exactly the same out of the box, only differing from anything you deliberately change, like EQ, filters, crossfading curve etc.

    There would need to be very good reasons to go back and "re-record" everything. Would have to be to achieve something else: Different setup, different players etc. I am sure no-one at OT would put them through the hell of re-recording samples for an entire orchestra again just to "make it fit" into a new sampler. And of course, there is absolutely no reason to do this - the wav's will work in anything you use them for.

    Frankly, it sounds like you don't know much about these things. I am sure the OT guys on the other hand know what they are doing...
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2019
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  13. Hendrik-Schwarzer

    Hendrik-Schwarzer Active Member

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    Non of our samples recorded at Teldex are processed. The signal goes from the microphones/ preamps into the converters. There is no EQ, compression, saturation or anything in that regard. We want to give the natural unhyped sound of the instruments, acoustics and the scoring stage to our users, so they can process everything the way, they like. Even the editing is done in a way to make sure, that the pristine quality of the recordings is translated to the final product.
     
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  14. ProfoundSilence

    ProfoundSilence Active Member

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    jokes on you Hendrik, a good blend of microphones with that gorgeous room and I can't see a reason to use any of those tools.

    unfortunately, I do see a reason for 512gb of ram XD
     
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  15. MartinH.

    MartinH. Senior Member

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    I always wanted to ask this: does that mean that in Metropolis Ark 1 the close + tree mics at default volume give an accurate representation of how loud the different instrument sections are in relation to each other in the real world? If so, that would be a big plus in my book to be able to reference that as a base-line for realistic volume balance in a VI template.
     
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  16. Hendrik-Schwarzer

    Hendrik-Schwarzer Active Member

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    This is true. Especially with the tree you get an impression about the natural volume relations.
    Close is loaded along with tree in Metropolis Ark 1. We balance the close mics to fit with the tree.
     
  17. ProfoundSilence

    ProfoundSilence Active Member

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    This is pure mic blend with some noodling on berlin strings using only my "legato" patch.

    I use 2 CC's, dynamics and articulation crossfade - and controlling my "bow height" this way using cc2 allows me to tailor the darkness/brightness in real time, and I've never had this level of expression with strings before. Loading up the strings "costs" me about 60 gigs of ram - but even literally random notes thrown into a daw can create such a beautiful raw sound - that I'm convinced completely that a baby crying in teldex would be beautiful.

    this is literally me arming tracks and doing 1-2 improvisational takes, with no metronome - so some of it might make sense, some might be very odd - but the only thing that's being heard is a blend of 4/5 microphones.

    I'll do a shorts example too - to show you that you can control wetness this way as well.

    I'm going to be broke for a while, after starting a new job - but hopefully sometime I'll pick up first chairs, and then I'll really be able to sculpt the sound further - similar to what I could do with CSS+CSSS.

     

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  18. shawnsingh

    shawnsingh Active Member

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    This must be Ark 5...
     
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  19. ProfoundSilence

    ProfoundSilence Active Member

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    Idk what this is really, besides sloppy and quirky. I guess that's my personality anyways - so I guess I'll call this a portrait.

    granted this isn't the typical sound most people would probably elect to go for, but I like it. It's like distant, yet "bowy" and capable of being close and personal.

     

    Attached Files:

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  20. rudi

    rudi Member

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    Or just a ping pong ball bouncing on the floor :)
     
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