Should I get Berlin Woodwinds Revive?
- Thread starter Leon Portelance
- Start date
SimonCharlesHanna
Senior Member
It's definitely fantastic - they really improve with the rerecorded instruments. They are much wetter now tho, so If you used BWW to integrate into say, Hollywood Orchestra, i'd probably stay with what you have.
If you read another thread from people’s findings about the new revive then there are clearly mixed feelings about it.
I personally decided not to get it, mainly due to the various inconsistencies between the old and newly recorded instruments. 2 dynamic layers is another reason, and no higher Ff dynamics. For me the decisions made by OT for this upgrade are half decisions, made by economic reasons ( which is fair enough) but that resulted in a half this half that library. And this means a lot of extra balancing and tweaking during or afterwards which I already have enough off to do.
As it is BWW does what I need, and it sounds good to me. I will wait for CSWW and/or possibly the new VSL woods to extend the wood possibilities. Even the current VSL woods are very good to mix with BWW and sound excellent to me.
I personally decided not to get it, mainly due to the various inconsistencies between the old and newly recorded instruments. 2 dynamic layers is another reason, and no higher Ff dynamics. For me the decisions made by OT for this upgrade are half decisions, made by economic reasons ( which is fair enough) but that resulted in a half this half that library. And this means a lot of extra balancing and tweaking during or afterwards which I already have enough off to do.
As it is BWW does what I need, and it sounds good to me. I will wait for CSWW and/or possibly the new VSL woods to extend the wood possibilities. Even the current VSL woods are very good to mix with BWW and sound excellent to me.
ModalRealist
Senior Member
In the end I haven't bought Revive. I like the dryness of BWW's original recordings, and it's a matter of regret to me that they went wetter with BST and the later libraries. Personally, I think the original BWW sound is more pleasant, and that Revive has inherited a slight "boxiness" which I spend most of my time with BST and BPC trying to eliminate. I've only watched Revive's wallthroughs, but for my taste the wetter acoustic has also negatively affected the legato and run articulations—the latter of which, in particular, are important to me. This might just be me though; I confess I watched the walkthrough with less than 100% attention.
OP
OP
Leon Portelance
Composer | Songwriter
I think I might pass on Revive. What about Exp. D? It’s the only Exp. I don’t have, do you think it would be useful in my template?
FriFlo
Senior Member
I am also not sure with the upgrade decision ... one question regarding microphone positions to people using it: what is the difference in available microphone positions between the newly recorded and the older patches (e.g. Flute 1) where they probably did not have the same setup? Is ORTF and Close 1 and 2 only available with those new recordings? It is essential to me to be able to send midi data for mic mixing to all instances at once. It would be pretty annoying to have different instruments of the same family with different mic positions (e.g. Flute 1 with close and tree, but Flute 2 with Close 1, Close 2, ORTF, AB, Tree and Surround). I don't usually set this up via Komtakt GUI per instrument, but I rather shift select all WW tracks and record the midi data from my iPad to Cubase ...
FriFlo
Senior Member
Bump ... anyone who already bought the upgrade cares to answer? Thanks!
dtcomposer
Active Member
The mics are as follows:
[Close 1, Close 2, Ortf, AB, Tree, Surround ]- Piccolo, All solo Flutes, Oboes/Eh, All solo clarinets
[Close 1, Ortf, AB, Tree, Surround] - Bassoons
[Close, Room, Mix] - Flute ensemble, Clarinet Ensemble.
FriFlo
Senior Member
Thanks! I just wonder: How is it possible that they have the ORTFs etc on the Flute 1 and all the other instruments which were supposedly not newly recorded ... it could be that those microphone positions have already been recorded with the original BWW session!? Well, what matters to me is how they sound: If you compare e.g. Flute 1s and Flute 2s Microphone postitions, do they sound similar apart from the different player and instrument? If that is the case, the omission of Close 2 for the bassoons is totally ok with me!
dtcomposer
Active Member
Thanks! I just wonder: How is it possible that they have the ORTFs etc on the Flute 1 and all the other instruments which were supposedly not newly recorded ... it could be that those microphone positions have already been recorded with the original BWW session!? Well, what matters to me is how they sound: If you compare e.g. Flute 1s and Flute 2s Microphone postitions, do they sound similar apart from the different player and instrument? If that is the case, the omission of Close 2 for the bassoons is totally ok with me!
I think they must have already recorded the mic position with the older instruments and just not released them. The new instruments are wetter by default, and you have to increase volume quite a bit to get them to match. I think also that the number of expression layers is reduced in some instruments in the new version. But I think with the mic positions you can get them to match up pretty well without too much trouble. The new instruments sound really good. Very responsive legato and nice tone. I like the tone more on just about all the instrument compared to the earlier ones. I wish they would have re-recorded the Bassons, personally as I found them to be the most problematic of the older instruments. They sound nice, but are a bit unwieldy to mix at least in my hands. I even tried to just use the close mics and MIR and they still sound unfocused.
So for me the positives:
Great tone
Will mix quite well between the two versions of instruments
Excellent legato
Negatives:
Less dynamic layers
Some inconsistency in articulations between new and old instruments (types of longs, types of trills etc)
Bassoons really should have been re-recorded in my opinion.
I hope that helps a little bit. Overall I'm happy with the purchase, but not completely blown away.
FriFlo
Senior Member
Yeah, yeah! It's hard to be blown away by something you pay for and kind of already have ...
But hey, there is an Alto Flute there are a few new articulations ... although I did not have the feeling of a huge difference that will be noticeable in a mix by playing my BWW patches along with parts of the walkthrough videos, I think it is a fair price for this upgrade. Your info about the mic positions made sure for me, that I will not regret this in terms of usability, thanks for that! The only thing that makes me sad is the time limit for the upgrade which is not how OT usually handled these things! I hope they will not continue in that line ...
Last edited:
JonSolo
Not Han's Brother
I was so happy to get Berlin WW. The sounds and articulations are fantastic. It feels to me, considering I have a number of other orchestral libraries, that my bases are covered. The update seems to be a little interesting, but not groundbreaking enough to take my money just yet. I think Orchestral Tools make some of the finest products that are available, and I am sure Revive is nothing short of awesome to someone who does not already have Berlin WW.
SimonCharlesHanna
Senior Member
Bassoon 1 might possibly be my favourite sampled bassoon!!
dtcomposer
Active Member
Interesting. Would you mind telling me how you use it? Are you using the multi instrument, the single articulations, and what mic settings/context (orchestral, solo)? Thanks.
Edit: Strike that last comment. I haven't used them in a while, but playing a round a bit more with them I was able to find a nice balance that I like. Maybe a bit of confirmation bias at play the last time I listened to them briefly, or maybe I was somehow triggering a second instrument while trying to learn how to use Capsule. They sound lovely now.
Last edited:
galactic orange
Sensor Number
We're coming up on the last few days for BWW users to upgrade to Revive. I still haven't decided if I should pick it up or not. For those who have already upgraded, do you think Revive adds enough to be worth it? Do you think the shortcomings mentioned in this thread outweigh the good points?
C-Wave
Senior Member
I upgraded, couple of points..
1. One thing that wasn’t clear is that the noldcinstruments are using Old recording but the samples made from those recording are totally new; samples and edited speciafically for this library to conform for the Teldex sound.
2. Which brings us to the second point: the sound is very beautiful, not surprisingly, but the lower natural sound of woodwinds in an orchestral setting is evident in the new samples. i.e. not lower only on the new mics, but rather ALL mics volume is lower on the new samples compared to legacy.
3. Having said that, the exception is the first flute, which even in the new samples is unnaturally higher as if placed in front of all other flutes.. I sent Tobias an email inquiring, and he promised to reply.. Waiting for his reply.
galactic orange
Sensor Number
I don't have the other libraries of the Berlin series. But I have Metropolis Ark 1-3 and it sounds like the updated mic positions in BWW Revive would help mix the woodwinds in easier (though I haven't tried this yet with the old BWW). All those issues you listed can be compensated for. But I'd like to know if the added articulations and mic positions have been useful to anyone since the Revive release. Otherwise I might use the cash for a certain wish list purchase somewhere else.
C-Wave
Senior Member
If you want to use the Woodwinds with Ark then it’s a different story: Ark uses a non-conventional seating for the orchestra so the placement of Woodwinds Revive is irrelevant in this case. Where it matters is with Berlin series. Double Check with Tobias at support.. he’ll be glad to help.
Hello, after upgrading to Revive (woodwinds 3.0), are you still using Legacy patches which come with revive?
Parsifal666
I don't even own a DAW, I'm just a troll.
If you're looking for a great WWs ensemble library, look no further. It's next up on my list for vis, along with the rest of the Hein solo strings.
