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Should I get an EWI?

R

Ron Kords

Active Member
Hi all,

After having binned my old EWI years back (before sampled instruments really hit their stride), I'm now thinking of getting a new one (5000 USB) to use with samples.

I'm predominantly on Spitfire with a bit of Berlin and use the Tecontrol and keyboard but am intrigued by the possibility of using an EWI for single lines. I know I can play much more realistic runs on an EWI than keyboard and also feel that in terms of 'composing' lines I'd be more fluent/intuitive.

I'm guessing that it would only be effective with legatos/longs where note velocity is not a factor and that I'd control dynamic and exp' with breath, maybe vibrato with bite...? I don't use key switches so no issue there...

I'm on 2012 i7 iMac/ext' SSD and hope to use the EWI to trigger samples (not really interested in its own sounds).

Can anyone advise what they found to be good/bad/dealbreaky before I spend any money - happy to be persuaded or dissuaded!!
Click to read more...
 
I use my USB EWI to control the Sample Modeling instruments to great effect. Other libraries need some futzing to get the best results as they're not optimized for great control usually. (I seem to remember reading somewhere about a Kontakt script that helped. Might be time to poke around a little. Thanks for the reminder.)
If the touch capacitance keywork is an issue, be sure to check the new Roland wind instrument before you choose.
 
hello theserus. Hi everyone.the thread is a bit old but i hope that you are still around :)
Could you elaborate about the reason that ewi 5000 is better than roland aerophone? aanyone with experience in both?I thinking of getting a wind controller...
thanks
 
Wow, I am a studio woodwind player & composer in LA. Played a lot of EWI when they were popular here. I have plenty of technique but I hate using EWI for programing. If I want to use Breath as a controller I use the TEcontrol but I rarely use that either. One of the frustrations is with either option it's impossible to tongue a hard as opposed to soft attack. For libs that use velocity to change attack, you have to go back to edit anyway. Always feel like there's a lag after finishing a phrase - you start a new phrase from zero, not 127. EWI also records so much extraneous information... which I know can be filtered out but all-in-all I feel it's generally a waste of time. I don't have incredible keyboard skills but I work a lot faster by sticking to the keyboard.
 
I hear you and thiese are my worries.
Thanks for your reply. I am a saxophone player so it seems that the fingerings and mouthpiece mimick more what i am used to with the aerophone . i would like to hear from musicians and composer that might have tried both ewi and aerophone.
Did you get a chance to try it?
 
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I'm assuming you want to use the wind controller as a MIDI controller, as computer-based sounds are significantly better than what comes with the instruments.

I've only played the USB EWI, so I can't speak entirely from experience.

Color me surprised , but neither the EWI 5000 or the Aerophone 10 appear to support wireless MIDI. The EWI 5000 remote box has a USB plug, but appears to be solely for power. :eek:

Not that it's a big deal. When I play live, I use a USB EWI with a $150 DIY wireless setup, but use a USB cable when I'm at home. (I'm not a pro in either capacity).

The Aerophone tries to duplicate the "true" sax fingerings. In contrast, the EWI has a bunch of alternate fingerings available, which I - not a sax player - find convenient.

The Aerophone has keys that move, but have read mixed reviews on the feel. It constantly surprises me how well the non-moving keys on the EWI work.

The biggest difference is the number of controls. The Aerophone has user-assignable keys, as well as a reed in a "real" mouthpiece. Being able to control sound via the reed may be a big thing for you, as you're a sax player.

But... for music entry, a breath controller is a more flexible option. For $130, it's less a purchasing risk that a wind controller.

You read Mark's caveats on both types of controllers. Although I love my EWI, there's a big difference between "fun to play" and "best way to enter music."

If you really want a monophonic MIDI controller, the USB EWI might be worth considering instead of the Aerophone or EWI 5000.
 
My primary instrument is clarinet and I'll say that also find it much easier to enter notes via keyboard. I have the newest Yamaha (which I think is actually quite old by now) and it's frustrating to play because it's not nearly as responsive as an actual wind instrument. Trills sound terrible - it catches one of every five notes or so. And as noted above, response to tonguing is not good.

Bottom line: if you have some chops as a wind player you're going to be frustrated. A MIDI wind controller doesn't mimic a wind instrument anywhere near as well as a MIDI keyboard mimics a piano.

I strongly suggest you go try one out. You might save yourself a bunch of money. The only reason I'm keeping mine is because I think it's a neat piece of music tech history. It failed, but it's still a neat piece of history. I'm going to mount it in a big shadow box and put it on my studio wall one day in about 20 more years.

rgames
 
Hi @David Cuny, thank you for your answer.
I should have precised my intended use indeed!
I want to compose in a daw for sure and use it as solo instrument with expression. I dont play piano yet and prefer to focus on my instrument for now. I would usually compose writting scores,when it comes to solos, i would prefer to play that with a wind controller...

i also hope to gig with it, connecting it via usb midi to a laptop or Ipad... so i want to keep the shape of a sax and play among full band including pianist or keyboard player and not replace them .

sorry im confused "Mark's caveats" ? I googled it but couldnt find infos.

I understand your thoughts on the ewi usb but it has been described as buggy and fragile.

On top of that, the aerophone 10 would allow me by its design to practice silently with the same fingering system as the sax.
Its embouchure and vibrato system seem the most sensitive ( i would like to have confirmation).

About connections, some midi/usb wireless transmitters exist and some people used them for stage so it might not be my most important concern

@rgames
thank you for your inputs. the trills issue is very interesting. I assume you speak about this old yamaha wx5. My hope is that the technology evolved.Indeed, i love to play with trills and different intense attacks(i play clarinet too , klezmer mostly)

Thank you for your thoughts! it is nice to see that the forum is alive
 
The EWI is a fantastic instrument. I recommend it highly - any of the models.

But you have to know going in that wind controllers want to control everything about a sound in real time after the note has been triggered, while the vast majority of sample libraries are set up more for keyboard control - keyswitches etc. to select the sample you want before you play it.

There certainly are sample libraries that can be used with an EWI, and the Sample Modeling ones are a special case (they work best with it or a breath controller), but overall the EWI is best with synthesizers. I mainly use mine to play a Yamaha VL1 physical modeling synth from the early '90s, or with its own analog synth.

There's a new software synth called Respiro that's intended to be used with a wind controller. It looks interesting.
 
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rgames said:
My primary instrument is clarinet and I'll say that also find it much easier to enter notes via keyboard. I have the newest Yamaha (which I think is actually quite old by now) and it's frustrating to play because it's not nearly as responsive as an actual wind instrument. Trills sound terrible - it catches one of every five notes or so. And as noted above, response to tonguing is not good.
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That's not at all the case with the EWI. It responds as well as an acoustic instrument.

Bottom line: if you have some chops as a wind player you're going to be frustrated. A MIDI wind controller doesn't mimic a wind instrument anywhere near as well as a MIDI keyboard mimics a piano.
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Well, piano samples work really well because they don't change after they're triggered (leaving aside half-pedaling or whatever). But what you're experiencing may just be an issue with your WX.

To be honest, I haven't heard that complaint about WXs before either. What are you triggering?

The only reason I'm keeping mine is because I think it's a neat piece of music tech history. It failed, but it's still a neat piece of history. I'm going to mount it in a big shadow box and put it on my studio wall one day in about 20 more years.
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Not remotely true. Wind controllers are a success, Richard. Either you're triggering sounds that don't work well with a wind controller or your unit is fongula.

Check out some of these. Something is totally wrong for you to have that experience.

YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
 
hi @Nick Batzdorf .
The VL1 sounds like a lot of fun.
Yes I saw that Respiro synth. Some sounds are beautiful. It seems that they designed it with the sylphio in mind but i guess that it doesnt matter. Did you ever compare the playability of an ewi with the Aerophone ?
I wonder if that plastic reed on the aerophone gives it the advantage for expressivity and articulations...
 
alainhalimi said:
hi @Nick Batzdorf .
The VL1 sounds like a lot of fun.
Yes I saw that Respiro synth. Some sounds are beautiful. It seems that they designed it with the sylphio in mind but i guess that it doesnt matter. Did you ever compare the playability of an ewi with the Aerophone ?
I wonder if that plastic reed on the aerophone gives it the advantage for expressivity and articulations...
Click to expand...

I haven't tried an Aerophone. Sorry.

It uses Boehm fingering, so I couldn't play it anyway. I play recorder (not sax or clarinet), and you can play the EWI with recorder fingering if you want. (It also works with Boehm fingering, and the latest ones even have a trumpet fingering mode.)
 
Reviving this thread as I figured this question had been asked recently.

I tried using a Yamaha controller about 10 years ago and it just slowed me down.
VSTi has come long way since then.

I play Trumpet/Sax/Clarinet.

Is it easy to remap controllers for libraries that use different controllers for dynamics?
Or as a for instance....
I just got the Embertone Bassoon.
Will a library like that be just as 'playable' with a EWI?
 
It depends on the library.

Short Version: If the library has a way to map the Dynamics to the CC2, you're probably in luck.

For example, with the Popelka Bassoon, in the Performance tab, set the Dynamics and Vibrato Depth to CC2 using Learn MIDI CC# Automation. That's all there is to it. As you play at different breath pressure, the instrument will play back appropriately, and sounds quite good.

For Passion Flute from Orange Tree, in the Settings tab, map the Expression to CC2 using Learn MIDI CC# Automation, and then set Dynamics to Attack and set the slider to about 75% or so to reduce the initial "chiff" on non-legato notes.

Embertone Crystal Flute also has a Dynamics, and you can turn off Attack Samples if you don't want the initial attack on every non-legato note.


Be aware that most sample libraries - including the Popelka Bassoon - choose a sample based on the initial velocity of the note. And when you start a note from silence, the initial velocity from a breath controller is generally going to be something close to zero, because even when you blow hard, it starts from zero.

Unless the library specifically cross-fades as you adjust the dynamics (many don't), it'll stay on that sample, even as you change dynamics.

It's generally only when you move to another note using legato that you can trigger a sample mapped to a high initial velocity.

This isn't a huge issue, but it's a limitation you should be aware of.

What about libraries that don't have a way to map CC2 to dynamics?

For example, the Vintage Horns library from Funk/Soul doesn't have a dynamics mapping. Because CC2 isn't mapped to anything, blowing harder or softer doesn't change the dynamics.

You can map the CC2 to the Volume control, but really doesn't work that well. Among other things, you lose the sample tail and reverb, since the global volume is being controlled by CC2.

So, yes - there are many libraries that will be playable via a breath/wind controller.
 
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David Cuny said:
It depends on the library.

Short Version: If the library has a way to map the Dynamics to the CC2, you're probably in luck.

For example, with the Popelka Bassoon, in the Performance tab, set the Dynamics and Vibrato Depth to CC2 using Learn MIDI CC# Automation. That's all there is to it. As you play at different breath pressure, the instrument will play back appropriately, and sounds quite good.

For Passion Flute from Orange Tree, in the Settings tab, map the Expression to CC2 using Learn MIDI CC# Automation, and then set Dynamics to Attack and set the slider to about 75% or so to reduce the initial "chiff" on non-legato notes.

Embertone Crystal Flute also has a Dynamics, and you can turn off Attack Samples if you don't want the initial attack on every non-legato note.


Be aware that most sample libraries - including the Popelka Bassoon - choose a sample based on the initial velocity of the note. And when you start a note from silence, the initial velocity from a breath controller is generally going to be something close to zero, because even when you blow hard, it starts from zero.

Unless the library specifically cross-fades as you adjust the dynamics (many don't), it'll stay on that sample, even as you change dynamics.

It's generally only when you move to another note using legato that you can trigger a sample mapped to a high initial velocity.

This isn't a huge issue, but it's a limitation you should be aware of.

What about libraries that don't have a way to map CC2 to dynamics?

For example, the Vintage Horns library from Funk/Soul doesn't have a dynamics mapping. Because CC2 isn't mapped to anything, blowing harder or softer doesn't change the dynamics.

You can map the CC2 to the Volume control, but really doesn't work that well. Among other things, you lose the sample tail and reverb, since the global volume is being controlled by CC2.

So, yes - there are many libraries that will be playable via a breath/wind controller.
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THANKS.
Thats the type of detail that you just don't get your head around until you have dug in a bit.

The Popelka Bassoon doesn't crossfade (ironically, part of why it sounds so realistic).
It looks like next time I have a couple hundred bucks burning a whole in my pocket, I should pick one up and try for myself.

I know that my phrasing would be more natural.
As is, I am thinking about leaving spaces for breath and natural wind phrasing.
Easier if you are just 'playing' it.
 
JohnMarkPainter said:
I know that my phrasing would be more natural.
As is, I am thinking about leaving spaces for breath and natural wind phrasing.
Easier if you are just 'playing' it.
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Actually, you still have to work at it. Because a breath controller requires so little breath in comparison to the actual instrument, it's much too easy to extend a line too far.

So while it's easier to phrase things naturally, it still requires some intentionality. I found that out in the last piece I played a trumpet part on. I had to go back and edit in a few "breaths" after the fact. :blush:
 
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