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We all know Apple doesn’t serve creatives anymore. They seem to prioritize people like my mom and convincing them that they need to be able to know the ins and outs of OS and iOS to even exist in the modern world. (Genius Bar...full of confused people and no booze in sight...but somehow...”Genius”/$.)

In the same way it seems like some larger sample developers have gotten away from serving just those who produce/write for media for a living and into selling a sort of “HZ scoring kit in a box” thing or chasing a realism in samples that can only be achieved in a very crude, basic way (Evos, waves, Fx, one-shots, dyn patches, etc), trying to satisfy both at once. That requires marketing obviously. If there were more developers who focused on advancing the tools for professionals only and charged more too ...well I guess that’s kind of what VSL does to an extent. Instead we’re seeing the larger developers who need a marketing push to justify large projects and 10,000 boutique operations who produce no frills products. The cost of sample libraries is much lower than 10-15 years ago (it seems), although when you add all of the SF/8dio/Audiobro string libraries up that I’ve plunked down for I could have bought the VSL cube a couple times.

...shrugs shoulders...

At this point I’m most interested in how someone like JXL or even CH use samples to blend with real players. That technique doesn’t get a lot of attention from developers/walkthroughs bc obviously it’s not the best business move to say that. I mean, a developer wouldn’t even suggest that blending with other competing libraries is a good idea (although one of the most known string library developers suggested privately that I do just that to get a bigger sound).
 
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That does it. I'm throwing away my Mark Tremonti guitar. Besides, having to tune it every once in awhile interrupts my workflow.

I've seen one of those used Ingwie M. on a wall at Guitar Center.
That seems more like coming from a 12 year old looser than a middle-aged professional.

Can you imagine any A-lister wanting to associate themselves with that kind of a company. Don't see myself putting any more money in their pockets!

You might be surprised that many people don't care when it comes to buying a product.
 
I just going to leave the words of HZ from another thread here...

"Look, other sample libraries have tried to do “me”. Either by using the musicians I’m closely connected to, or hiring my sample team away from me. The knowledge and their worth came from working on my projects for years - but (and I think it was a short-lived Love affair) it didn’t seem to work out. I didn’t try to persuade my team to stay, I really hoped that this would work out for all of them and make their lifes better...And I didn’t tweet about it, either."

Nuff said.
 
I just going to leave the words of HZ from another thread here...

"Look, other sample libraries have tried to do “me”. Either by using the musicians I’m closely connected to, or hiring my sample team away from me. The knowledge and their worth came from working on my projects for years - but (and I think it was a short-lived Love affair) it didn’t seem to work out. I didn’t try to persuade my team to stay, I really hoped that this would work out for all of them and make their lifes better...And I didn’t tweet about it, either."

Nuff said.

He is such of a fine eloquently speaking gentleman. Well..Mike Patti tweets what he thinks, HZ does express his thoughts here. Thats fine.
 
I think ALL developers should learn to develop thicker skins sometimes. Some developers such as Spitfire, 8Dio, East West while no doubt proud of their new products, tend to over hype them.

That's fine, but then it sets them up for the inevitable flak when the reality does not quite match the expectation.

I realise its not easy when your creative output gets criticism or negative feedback, sometimes its unwarranted and other times its a result of people getting swept along into buying something because its getting talked about.

And I certainly dont want to come across as a "rude twat" to quote someone...
 
He is such of a fine eloquently speaking gentleman. Well..Mike Patti tweets what he thinks, HZ does express his thoughts here. Thats fine.
Yeah, I think what happens with these threads is that people build their own conspiracies of characters in this when in fact, those involved tend to share their thoughts publicly in either a lashing out way due to frustration, jealousy, bitterness, or just plain and openly simple. I think what I can read in all of this is that sure, Mike can express his opinions but...it does speak to his character about how he truly feels.

One could argue that CineSamples never really struck gold the way they did with CineBrass back in the day. Hell, they went radio silent for roughly two years after closing up shop at Sonic Fuel and now they farm out most of their work to freelance people like Will Bedford. I've met both Mikes once, at NAMM, and the experience wasn't very good. Aside from that, I don't know them anymore than those interaction but I will say, since I follow them, that they are passionate about film music and have very particular tastes, albeit pretty old school given today's industry. They have solid clients for sure, who support their business, I for one have bought some of their recent releases like CineHarps (great fucking library) but still, reading his words makes me think he wishes they were at a higher level.

People, by and large, only lash out like that when they are unhappy and in most cases, jealous of others. You don't need to be a psych major to observe that. At the end of the day, it's a business. Spitfire Audio and others have played the game well and whether or not you like their libraries is irrelevant to a business. CineSamples is the same way. Sure, people may love their libraries but they don't compete in the marketing world to build the buzz needed to be hugely successful. CineBrass was so successful because there hadn't been a major breakthrough in sampling and the sound of sampling like that. After that, the bigger names we know of today started pumping out big orchestral libraries that pushed CineSamples out a bit. What worked for CineBrass didn't necessarily work for CineWinds, Strings, and Percussion (Please, I'm not saying these libraries are bad so no need to defend them). So, I feel for CineSamples in that regards but if they stand by the quality of their libraries then why not be willing to put up just as much into the marketing for it to get the reception it deserves? Big marketing doesn't mean you hate your customers or disrespect them. That only has that effect if that's the way you feel about them. You can respect your customers and still do a major marketing campaign.

Look, I know a lot of people don't like that thing Spitfire does where they tease the teaser but they want to build hype and it works every time, regardless if you like it or not. When they finally do announce something, they put a lot of time and effort into it. No other developer is releasing the type of content that Spitfire Audio is and their content is pretty remarkable given they are a sample developer. We get insight from Composers, learn different techniques, learn how to use their tools, etc. They've built a "community" of users because they offer more than just a tool that works and let's people write what they want. CineSamples hasn't done that, nor have most developers.

Again, you don't need to be a genius to draw those conclusions in this industry. Having reviewed libraries for years now which means I've built a professional relationship with a lot of developers, I know their frustrations with this issue first hand. At the end of the day, they only have themselves and their business model to criticize. It's a competitive market and they know it so they should own their own success.

-C
 
You could say the same of any developer. When 8dio started developing Century Brass in summer 2015 there was no Cinematic Studio Series, no Musical Sampling, no Performance Samples, no NI Symphonic Series, no Bravura Scoring Brass, no Chris Hein Orchestral Brass...

They were developing in an environment where their visible competition was Hollywood Brass, Cinebrass, Spitfire BML, and it was also a reasonable inference that there'd be an upcoming Berlin series brass product with unknown specs. But that's it. Then the product comes out 2.5 years later and they face fierce competition from a half dozen developers they didn't even know would exist.
 
You could say the same of any developer. When 8dio started developing Century Brass in summer 2015 there was no Cinematic Studio Series, no Musical Sampling, no Performance Samples, no NI Symphonic Series, no Bravura Scoring Brass, no Chris Hein Orchestral Brass...

They were developing in an environment where their visible competition was Hollywood Brass, Cinebrass, Spitfire BML, and it was also a reasonable inference that there'd be an upcoming Berlin series brass product with unknown specs. But that's it. Then the product comes out 2.5 years later and they face fierce competition from a half dozen developers they didn't even know would exist.
I don't mean to sound rude but what is your point? You're basically explaining what simple competition is in an industry like this. My point was never about not knowing what the competition will be in 2 years but simply what it is NOW!! CineSamples has been around long enough and has watched companies like Spitfire Audio grow exponentially whilst they stay relatively the same or even less so now that they don't really have a full time staff like they did. Back to my point, if Mike is lashing out really because he dislikes that other developers are doing better regardless of whether or not their libraries are good, that's on him and CineSamples, nobody else.
 
oh.. sorry to step in. I wanted to say something about business:

to focus on yourself strength is better than to focus on other's weakness, then if so you are showing your own weakness as comparing your "strength" to their weakness, in the meantime your are steering the audience to your competition instead of on yourself or on your product.

I like the zen way. Go your way in peace, straight forward. Let the others talk about you, don't talk about the others...
 
I would argue that in an ever more competitive business like this with what seems like dwindling margins, knowing your competition along with knowing your own strengths and weakness and what viable niche your products can fill are all vital to success.

Spitfire to me was clever by creating something that only they could create based on vast resources (compared to other devs) and having Hans. Naturally others will be jealous. Spitfire can afford a private jet while others are going across the Atlantic steerage and trying to convince the world they are flying. Wow terrible metaphor or something.
 
Business 101 - don't diss your competitors (in public).
Or if you do, try it with a light-hearted touch and a sense of humor. That's why I posted the "I'm a Mac. I'm a PC." ad campaign example earlier. Even with that soft touch though, it caused its share of controversy; but in the end, I'd say it did Apple more good than bad.

Best,

Geoff
 
Maybe Mike's tweets themselves are just part of a marketing stunt. Seems to be working rather well too, so far.
 
Business 101 - don't diss your competitors (in public).
That was my first thought too. It’s far more likely to hurt your sales than help.

Apple got away with it for 2 reasons. 1. They used humour and 2. They felt their products were genuinely superior so they wanted to go head to head with PCs. This was an effective marketing technique for them but it would never have worked in a tweet.

Mike’s free to tweet whatever he wants, but purely from a business perspective what he wrote will probably do more harm than good.
 
When they finally do announce something, they put a lot of time and effort into it. No other developer is releasing the type of content that Spitfire Audio is and their content is pretty remarkable given they are a sample developer. We get insight from Composers, learn different techniques, learn how to use their tools, etc. They've built a "community" of users because they offer more than just a tool that works and let's people write what they want. CineSamples hasn't done that, nor have most developers.
Nor has any other developer that I know of. And let's not forget the vlog @christianhenson puts out either—both entertaining and educational. For all of the complaints I read about Spitfire's products being overpriced, they release equally valuable content for free in the form of YouTube videos, as you described above. And their freebie samples are generally worthwhile as well.

As alienating as their hype is to some, their outreach into our community builds an equal or greater loyalty in others. Once other developers get that and up their game on support, they'll become more competitive.

Best,

Geoff
 
"Look, other sample libraries have tried to do “me”. Either by using the musicians I’m closely connected to, or hiring my sample team away from me. The knowledge and their worth came from working on my projects for years - but (and I think it was a short-lived Love affair) it didn’t seem to work out. I didn’t try to persuade my team to stay, I really hoped that this would work out for all of them and make their lifes better...And I didn’t tweet about it, either."
What is this in reference to? What product was released, who got hired away, etc.?
 
Here's a concept - buy stuff you truly like and ignore the bullshit, everyone's bullshit - developers, fanboys, competitors, sponsored commentators alike. I take sample libraries the same way I do people, cars and everything else - the way I find them, not the way they're advertised and hyped to me. You need more than bullshit and social media marketing to get your hands on my wallet :rofl:
 
That was my first thought too. It’s far more likely to hurt your sales than help.

Apple got away with it for 2 reasons. 1. They used humour and 2. They felt their products were genuinely superior so they wanted to go head to head with PCs. This was an effective marketing technique for them but it would never have worked in a tweet.

Mike’s free to tweet whatever he wants, but purely from a business perspective what he wrote will probably do more harm than good.

I don't really know if that's true. Trump dissed his competitors continuously during the 2016 election and it didn't hurt him at all. He still does it on an almost daily basis on twitter and it seems to have very little adverse effect for him. It would be ideal if that weren't true, but it seems that this is the situation.

Not sure how this kind of tactic translates to the sample library world, but maybe some new start up will take his lead and come up with insulting nicknames for all the primary sample library companies..... I can think of a few nicknames but I don't want to start a flame war and get banned. Maybe I can be the future president of one of the big sample libraries? Time will tell.
 
What is this in reference to? What product was released, who got hired away, etc.?
CineSamples hired HZ's sample team a few years back. That is what he's referencing there and as far as musicians he's closely connected with, I can't imagine anyone other than Tina Guo, given the extensive work and collaborations she's done with HZ in the past. He didn't reference anything about a particular product but it's very clear who he's talking about here.
 
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