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Short lower strings recommendation wanted

jbuhler

Senior Member
neh, lass spiccatos are just noisy. Berlin strings spiccato exposed is a similiar(but vastly better sounding) version of the upper dynamics. Berlin string shorts are pretty darn tight in general too. Low menacing sustains works much better if you have access to the expansions and 98729872 gigs of ram.
It's that RAM bit that I haven't been able to solve well and keeps me from embracing the Berlin series. Still, I was surprised to learn on that other thread you posted to that the BWW flute had a smaller RAM footprint than the SSW flute. Did I read you right there?
 

ProfoundSilence

Senior Member
It's that RAM bit that I haven't been able to solve well and keeps me from embracing the Berlin series. Still, I was surprised to learn on that other thread you posted to that the BWW flute had a smaller RAM footprint than the SSW flute. Did I read you right there?
I was surprised myself how close they are, out of the box - which ends up being like 458 mb for the default solo flute "multi" from SSW and the multi from BWW eats 720mb. Ofcourse different articulations - but ultimately BWW ends up being much higher in RR. Main difference is - that in order to achieve that sound, I needed all 3 microphones to get a good balanced tone from SSW and the mixed single mic from BWW needs next to 0 treatment out of the box, thus uses less ram. Thus the extra ram in that scenario was actually the SSW using more mics. Could have probably dropped a single mic off and blended just the close and tree from spitfire, but that puts the patch at 900mb. Sorry if I mislead you - haha. Basically - if your goal is to sound good, BWW legacy has a mixed mic that gets you like 95% of the way there, just a splash of m7 and you're golden. Spitfire's tree is too distant/dull to be used on it's own without getting buried, so you basically need to use close mics or you'll lose it in the mix, and if you use only close mics - you're not getting any of the room, which is the only reason to choose the sound of SSW(close mics aren't as clean/good as berlin)


So TLDR version: if you don't mix like a dingus - but like libraries like CSS/CSB/Cinesamples that have mixed position single mics= you'll save ram because it's already both ambient and clear/punchy.

Would be interesting to compare them side by side using only single articulations to match - but again, the RR on shorts will end up being the main difference between the two articulation per articulation. As far as OPTIONS thats another story. SSW has like, staccato - tenuto - marcato. BBW has staccatissimo, staccato, portato short - portato long. SSW has minor 2nd and major 2nd trills - BBW has like +1-+4 trills and +1/2/3/4/5/6/7 measured trills - and a whole myriad of other random stuff.
 
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AndyP

AndyP

Active Member
@AndyP what type of music are these for may help suggestions?
Dark, dramatic, epic with choir and voice (oceania and etheria). The tragic ending scene after a "personal" disaster.
I have now decided against a deep string ostinato, since the ConMoto cellos have given the whole much more presence and drama and I only use ostinatos in the higher registers, carried by a swelling string wave and the teary voice.
Is less restless and has more depth.
Unfortunately I don't have a soundcloud account, otherwise I would have posted this here. Don't share my outpourings so often. ;)
I only used performance samples for the strings, brass and the choir to see how they work together. I have to say, I like the sound, I don't want to say magic, but they sound very natural, alive in context.

I have to wipe a tear out of my face first ...
 
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AndyP

AndyP

Active Member
Is it allowed to attach an mp4 file of 2.1 mb? 🤔

The idea was, to get more power when the drums came in, but i decided to go for a legato cello line.
Its roughly unmixed and not finished, needs a lot of tidy up, thin out, but that was the idea of the scene.

 
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James H

01001000 01101001
@ProfoundSilence

Got 30mins spare so very quickly dropped this down.
Bass and Cello with out of box settings on Iceni. Just close mics and no eq or master bus stuff.
If you could see what you can get with Ark I'd be interested to hear. It just doesn't get close to this for me :sad:

Anyhoo, midi attached and my scrappy audio.

 

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ProfoundSilence

Senior Member
@ProfoundSilence

Got 30mins spare so very quickly dropped this down.
Bass and Cello with out of box settings on Iceni. Just close mics and no eq or master bus stuff.
If you could see what you can get with Ark I'd be interested to hear. It just doesn't get close to this for me :sad:

Anyhoo, midi attached and my scrappy audio.

that's the issue I brought up - it's a closer mic that ark 1 - but who is going to use the close mic only in a final mix?

maybe for some hip hop beats or something, but the end result is going to be either tree blended in or a large helping of reverb.

That's why I requested(to the OP) an example of something professionally produced that "bone dry" is trying to recreate. otherwise its an apples and oranges waste of time when they both end up in a fruit salad lol. Albion 3 close are pretty close in line with most spitfire stuff, but it's still going to be mixed back in with another farther mic
 
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JEPA

Senior Member
Before any further buy try your actual strings with:

1) close mics
2) a transient designer

Transient designer settings:
Attack>normal to short, release>short, gain>zero

Transient designer recommendations:
  • iZotope (this is the best because you can affect frequency bands)
  • Native-Instruments
  • PluginAlliance
  • W.A. Imprint
  • Others: Audio Assault (sale $5)
  • Auburn sounds Couture FREE
 

JEPA

Senior Member
Another clue:
  • For fast movement 8dio legato arpeggio (violins, violas, cellos) is in sale, with code L8VE you get it for $28
 
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AndyP

AndyP

Active Member
Another clue:
  • For fast movement 8dio legato arpeggio (violins, violas, cellos) is in sale, with code L8VE you get it for $28
I give 8dio a chance, despite many negative reports.

I just download the legato arpeggio recommended by you and bought also adagietto, because the shorts sound very good.

Somehow it's crazy to get to the point to buy a library just for a very special sound. ;)
The price is low, so I don't have to think long about it.

I'm still waiting for the spitfire message who won the package.
Iceni has to wait until I have heard more single patches. The Iceni demo from James H hasn't convinced me yet that I need the package... I'd rather think about the SFSS, maybe they'll go into sale someday.

I thank you all for your advice and wish you a nice and creative weekend!
 
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ProfoundSilence

Senior Member
the example you posted doesn't sound bone dry at all. basically the exact point I was making - that looking for bone dry libraries is pointless.
 

MartinH.

Senior Member
the example you posted doesn't sound bone dry at all. basically the exact point I was making - that looking for bone dry libraries is pointless.
Would you say if one was to attempt to get all the reverb from effects (algo and/or convolution), that using Ark 1 close mics only, with trimmed release tails, is the way to go to avoid the common issues with varying tail lengths that many/all wet libraries have? Or would it be better to use the standard close + tree setup and remove the release tails? In general I've been going back and forth on whether I want to use recorded reverb or strip it out and use my own, I just can't decide on what suits me better. Since I use the single articulation patches in Ark 1 it would be a lot of fiddling just to try it out.


Reference Soundtracks that I like (both real orchestra, though I don't know how they were recorded):
 

James H

01001000 01101001
Do you know which sections they recorded together/separately?

My guess is choir separately, an I'm not sure about strings and brass:
I don't sorry. I love that video!
Only other info I could find was "features performances by a 65-piece orchestra and a 32-member choir. The development of the soundtrack lasted for around two and a half years."

It's a shame they don't video/document more of these as I would happily buy that DLC
 
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AndyP

AndyP

Active Member
I've found my solution.
8Dio had exactly what I was looking for.
The basses are a combination of the Adagietto basses and the Century Ostinato basses. Brilliant sound! Powerful, creaky, driving.
Adagietto spiccato mixed with the Century marcato bass sounds massive.
Ingenious dynamic, and I am positively surprised by 8Dio.

I wouldn't have stumbled across 8Dio without the note here in the forum. Brilliant!
Oceania and Lacrimosa now have what they needed. ;)

Thanks a lot folks!
 

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AndyP

AndyP

Active Member
the example you posted doesn't sound bone dry at all. basically the exact point I was making - that looking for bone dry libraries is pointless.
It certainly wasn't the best example. I had less reverb and staccato basses at first, but it didn't sound good.
Now I've found a good combinaton to play short, concise bass notes.
So rebuild and the legato bass come only at the end.
 

Saxer

Senior Member
LASS would be my first choice to add bite and tightness. They are dry and cut through everything. To get them roomy layer some wet samples of other libraries on top.
Layering synths/pianos/perc is another way to get shorts tighter.
 
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