jaketanner
Senior Member
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SF Studio Brass update yet?
- Thread starter jaketanner
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jaketanner
Senior Member
Damn...gotta check when exactly the legato issues were posted. I know for sure they were in Jan, but I thought I also saw in July and nothing yet...but will check again, thanks.
Jeremy Spencer
Senior Member
I own Core, haven't noticed any legato issues from what I've used so far (although there may be some). FWIW, I just used the solo legato trumpet for a production, I absolutely love it, very realistic sounding.
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jaketanner
Senior Member
Good to know. Still undecided if I should wait until BF to see what will come out or what’s in sale.
Mark Schmieder
Senior Member
I've mostly used the low brass, so I don't know if the high brass has different issues. I'm quite happy with this library's overall sound, but I have had some struggle with finding ways to get all the articulations that I want into one patch.
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jaketanner
Senior Member
I think as with other SF libraries, you may need to create multis to get the articulations you want into one instance, then use either different MIDI channels or KSs.
Mark Schmieder
Senior Member
Thanks; as you may recall, I first looked into their alternate mapping strategy, and detailed all the reasons why I decided against adopting that approach (though I see how it could work well for others).
I have tried to avoid Multis, as I would still have to split the basic part into multiple tracks, and I am trying to avoid that the past few years so that I am more easily able to move between MIDI mockups and standard notation scores. But it may be unavoidable in this case.
Interestingly, the only place where I still use multiple MIDI channels, is my Hammond XK-1c keyboard, which is single-manual but can be programmed for dual-manual-plus-pedals and then triggered by MIDI channel for each one. So I might have a ska-oriented piece where I use a different sound on the solo, and I split that to a different track but might have the same preset number on the XK-1c, and may choose (if the parts are well-balanced) to do a single audio rendering vs. two audio tracks.
I'm only mentioning that, because it may serve well towards dealing with the Spitfire articulation groupings, which are far less flexible than VSL's in terms of mega-grouping.
So I may find that additional articulations are only needed during solos, breaks, etc., and that I don't have to chop up entire parts into separate note-based tracks. I always keep my key switches and CC's on separate tracks BTW; partly do to with more flexibility in switching libraries and going back to notation files.
I have tried to avoid Multis, as I would still have to split the basic part into multiple tracks, and I am trying to avoid that the past few years so that I am more easily able to move between MIDI mockups and standard notation scores. But it may be unavoidable in this case.
Interestingly, the only place where I still use multiple MIDI channels, is my Hammond XK-1c keyboard, which is single-manual but can be programmed for dual-manual-plus-pedals and then triggered by MIDI channel for each one. So I might have a ska-oriented piece where I use a different sound on the solo, and I split that to a different track but might have the same preset number on the XK-1c, and may choose (if the parts are well-balanced) to do a single audio rendering vs. two audio tracks.
I'm only mentioning that, because it may serve well towards dealing with the Spitfire articulation groupings, which are far less flexible than VSL's in terms of mega-grouping.
So I may find that additional articulations are only needed during solos, breaks, etc., and that I don't have to chop up entire parts into separate note-based tracks. I always keep my key switches and CC's on separate tracks BTW; partly do to with more flexibility in switching libraries and going back to notation files.
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jaketanner
Senior Member
I actually wish they would adopt the articulation function of the NI Symphony Series. The libraries aren’t great, but being able to choose from a pool of articulations and add them as you need is awesome.
Mark Schmieder
Senior Member
Huh? How is that possible? How do you switch MIDI channels within a single track?
You don't. You set all the instruments in the multi respond to the same midi channel but a value of CC 32 switches the articulation, so only one is playing. Basic overview of UACC is here.
In Cubase I either use expression maps or more often, key switches which set the CC, but those key switches don't end up entering note events.
In Cubase I either use expression maps or more often, key switches which set the CC, but those key switches don't end up entering note events.
Mark Schmieder
Senior Member
Oh, UACC. 
I forget if this is the topic where I wrote about my weekend-long exploration of UACC and decided not to go that route. I prefer key switches and the ability to layer (occasionally).
I ended up concluding that UACC goes against all of my current work styles.
But maybe it's worth considering once again, even though it isn't compatible with anything else, as a final rendering of any track is not going to care about whether one has to start from scratch with a different vendor/library. It's a lot quicker to re-map keys witches between vendors/libraries.
I forget if this is the topic where I wrote about my weekend-long exploration of UACC and decided not to go that route. I prefer key switches and the ability to layer (occasionally).I ended up concluding that UACC goes against all of my current work styles.
But maybe it's worth considering once again, even though it isn't compatible with anything else, as a final rendering of any track is not going to care about whether one has to start from scratch with a different vendor/library. It's a lot quicker to re-map keys witches between vendors/libraries.
Mark Schmieder
Senior Member
What is UACC KS and how do I use it?
UACC Key Switch (UACC KS) is a mixture of keyswitching and UACC which provides the advantages of both methods. When UACC KS is activated a single key switch becomes available. Using the UACC spec o...
spitfireaudio.zendesk.com
Yes, I tried that too, at the time, and felt that velocity is not a way that I want to use for fine-tuned switching. I'm used to doing that after-the-fact with some of the VSL Matrix stuff, but that's only at the final stages of fine-tuning and polishing, so I don't mind at that point that it's hand-programmed vs. live-played. But it is good that the UACC KS mode is made available.
Everyone has their own preferences. I know people who detest key switches and want everything to be mod wheel only. I'll never figure out how they can tell where they are on the wheel, in cases where one needs several dozen different values, meaning the range of each is quite small.
Ribbon controllers such as the long one that Kurzweil often uses on their boards (and used to make as a standalone attachment; I sold mine because the programmable controller box was so wonky), and new-style controllers from ROLI and others, might mean that some of these concerns go away, as the tactile feedback is far greater, and thus so is the ability to "hit the mark".
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jaketanner
Senior Member
So well worth to get...I can get the professional version for $240 currently. I think even to complete the Studio series it's probably worth it alone...but it does have to be useable. My current brass libraries consist of Century and Caspian...both are good, but neither is a one stop...on paper, the Studio brass seems like it might be just that. Any negatives that you can comment on? Thanks.
Jeremy Spencer
Senior Member
I can't comment on Pro version, except that it's quite massive compared to the Core version (need a lot of drive space). Personally, I find the library suitable for adding some brass "flair" to my productions. It has a lot of cool decorative techniques (and as mentioned, I totally love the solo trumpet legato). However, I find many of the patches simply unusable, such as the Horns; to me they are very synthetic sounding. Maybe they are different in the Pro version? The Pro version also has the Euphonium, which sounds really good in the SF walkthroughs. Would I use it as a main brass library? Unfortunately, there's no way. Hollywood Brass is still my bread-and-butter library. I'm really hoping BBC will change that!
boxheadboy50
Active Member
Hey Jake - I promised you a more detailed opinion on FB. Here it is!
Pros: There are a boat load of articulations. Even some you may never ever use, depending on what kind of music you're writing. There are also more instrument variety than you'll find in most brass libraries. "Piccolo trumpet? Sweet!" "Bass Trumpet? Uh, people still write for that? Oh well, cool!"
And it's great that they give you two solo trumpet and horn patches so you can make ensembles out of them and the a2. Good friggin' deal!
Cons: The sound. I'm a trumpet player, so I feel like I have at least some knowledge in the area...
I just don't like how it sounds. The trumpets are incredibly synthy and lacking in detail. The trombones don't have the weight and fullness I think they deserve. The horns might be the only saving grace, but it sounds like maybe they have legato issues. Andy Blaney's demo is fantastic (aren't they all??) but I wonder how much putzing around he had to do to get that sound.
So - are you willing to give up good sound (which you may be able to improve with a lot of editing) for articulations and instruments? If so, then it's a great buy.
If you'd rather have something that sounds fantastic out of the box, needs very little programming magic, but may lack a few instruments (like the aforementioned piccolo/bass trumpets and second solo patches), then I would steer you toward CineBrass or CSB.
jbuhler
Senior Member
Pro Brass is more useable than core. The extra microphones are quite helpful and Pro has several very nice additional instruments.
I use Pro Brass to supplement SSB. It has additional instruments, muted shorts, and some other useful articulations that are missing in SSB. At full price it is a bit pricey as a supplement, but on a sale it made sense and I've found the Studio Brass instruments sit reasonably well with SSB and without a lot of futzing. So for me it's working for what I bought it to do.
Overall, I find the library uneven, and I wouldn't recommend it to serve as the main brass library. Many of the sustains have bumpy transitions between dynamic layers, and there is often unpleasantness in the sound that requires EQing to tame. Out of the box the dynamic levels of the shorts don't match the longs very well (this is true of the whole Studio series as far I can tell), and they don't map to other SF libraries so you have to either program a new velocity curve for the Studio instruments or completely rework the midi. There are also some real odd ball samples in the set. These can be effective as one-shots but when you get that same quirky sample every time it can make the library something of a challenge to use if it's your primary brass library.
As I said, it serves my purposes of supplementing SSB but if I had bought it to be my core brass library, I would still be looking to pick something in its stead.
ETA:
Personally, I think the horns are the least convincing patches in the library (though the stopped patches are go as are some of the extra articulations). I don't mind the trumpet (though I think there are better trumpets out there), but some of the worst odd-ball samples are in the solo Trumpet 2 legato.
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jaketanner
Senior Member
Damn...this is disappointing, as I have their other two studio series...But I don't think I need it THAT bad, that I have to deal with issues..although other libraries also have issue...so...LOL
