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Samplemodeling Solo & Ensemble Strings Released

Vardaro

Active Member
Thanks!
Just enough.. e.g.I practice four full octaves on my viola. I want my mockups to sound like me , but better (or like when I was younger..)
 
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Bollen

Vintage Member
Nope, actually solos are intended for... solos :) but you may use them as first chair as well, or for divisi of very small ensemble. ( e.g I’m programming a piece for very small ensemble and when violins 1 are divisi , I’m using 3 solos). Yes same numbers apply to Violins 2
Sorry, some of it was very clarifying and the other bit was confusing. I'll break it down to 3 final questions:

1.- How many solo violins are there or are they all "made" from the same instrument?
2.- Does the size controller (CC95) give you information on how many instruments are being emulated?
3.- Do the 2nd violins actually sound different, in which case you could have one section, combining both, with up to 10 voices divisi? (i.e. setting both at 5 instruments)

If I had this library I would've made a walkthrough already showing all the possibilities...
 

Fa

Member
Sorry, some of it was very clarifying and the other bit was confusing. I'll break it down to 3 final questions:

1.- How many solo violins are there or are they all "made" from the same instrument?
2.- Does the size controller (CC95) give you information on how many instruments are being emulated?
3.- Do the 2nd violins actually sound different, in which case you could have one section, combining both, with up to 10 voices divisi? (i.e. setting both at 5 instruments)

If I had this library I would've made a walkthrough already showing all the possibilities...
I agree with the walkthrough, that will be the next step of SM people (some are already under preparation)

I'm sorry for confusing you, I can give some more answers, but limited by some IP confidentiality.
I didn't mean that you have 5 voices, but 5 players per voice as a limit: if the section was a very large "round 20 players section" (made with cc95 at 127), and you have a 4 voices divisi, you will play the 4 voices passage with "round 5 players per voice" (made with cc95 at 0), to get a balanced sound.

If you need to make micro-divisi with lot of voices, then you should not use the cc95, but assign the parts to some solos instead, that was my comment. (like in real life).

Answers:

1. they are not solo violins, but the ensemble sound is made with a new proprietary technology, developed by Giorgio Tommasini. They are not made from the same instrument of course, or it would not work. I can't explain secret technical details, sorry, but the process is an extension of the Sample Modeling approach: the sound is unassembled into acoustic components that are modulated independently in 4 Kontakt modules to create all the nuances and imperfections increasing the realism of the performance, and reassembled for the final result.

2. No, just small medium or large. But the cc95 goes from 0 to 127, and can simulate roughly from 5 to 20 players. That's the reason for giving you some kind of references before.

3. The 2nd violins are sounding different, you may use them in unison like the real thing. Only PC resources are the limit. (but modern PC can run several ensembles and solos all together without the need of freezing tracks. My Mac Pro 2013 can run up to 10 multis and 4 solos + winds and percussions)
 

DANIELE

Active Member
I'm experiencing a bug maybe.

Put a long note in piano roll, then a Bow Change/Detaché ks, then you retrigger the note, play and stop after the retriggered note. The note remain stuck forever and the only way to stop it is to press again on the Bow Change/Detaché KS. Is there anyone that could do the try?

EDIT

I did another test, it is enough to put a single note and an overlapping Bow Change/Detaché KS, even without retriggering it the note remain stuck forever until I press the same KS again but only if it doesn't overlap any note. I don't know if it is the library or Reaper fault but many other libraries works just fine.

EDIT 2

I think I found why. If you press KS at high velocity (now I don't remember the exact threshold) you have a toggle KS behavior, if you play the KS under this threshold you have a momentary behavior. By putting the KS at low velocity the problem is solved. Is this an expected behavior? If I put the KS in toggle mode when I press STOP on my daw shouldn't the sound stop?
 
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Fa

Member
This is very confusing. I listened again, and this time I really liked everything I heard; things that I had an unsure feeling about before, now sound good. Hmmm, very confusing indeed.
I think it depends on what are you focusing on: if you listen to music with open mind, you appreciate the musicality and rich amount of nuances the instrument produces. Maybe with a cold and technical dissection you may notice the imperfections or limitations.

I think that this instrument is a perfect complement of a composer's arsenal: it does things that other professional libraries can't do (sculpting the sound at your will, producing a seamless variation of short and long notes, and any kind of trills runs and legatos with the same flexibility and variations. Even more important it blends perfectly into other existing libraries maybe perfect for other aspects: the final mix will be a step forward to anything possible before IMVHO).
 

Fa

Member
I'm experiencing a bug maybe.

Put a long note in piano roll, then a Bow Change/Detaché ks, then you retrigger the note, play and stop after the retriggered note. The note remain stuck forever and the only way to stop it is to press again on the Bow Change/Detaché KS. Is there anyone that could do the try?

EDIT

I did another test, it is enough to put a single note and an overlapping Bow Change/Detaché KS, even without retriggering it the note remain stuck forever until I press the same KS again but only if it doesn't overlap any note. I don't know if it is the library or Reaper fault but many other libraries works just fine.
This is not a bug, it was intended as a feature for Live play: the detachè KS once it's on, it works like a sustain pedal, and keep the sound forever, until the following note start, or you turn it off.

(that way you may press a key on the keyboard too far for your fingers to be played legato, and still keep the detachè legato effect without any interruption)
 

I like music

Senior Member
I think it depends on what are you focusing on: if you listen to music with open mind, you appreciate the musicality and rich amount of nuances the instrument produces. Maybe with a cold and technical dissection you may notice the imperfections or limitations.

I think that this instrument is a perfect complement of a composer's arsenal: it does things that other professional libraries can't do (sculpting the sound at your will, producing a seamless variation of short and long notes, and any kind of trills runs and legatos with the same flexibility and variations. Even more important it blends perfectly into other existing libraries maybe perfect for other aspects: the final mix will be a step forward to anything possible before IMVHO).
Agreed. I was originally trying to dissect and probably did so too quickly. The more I hear the more I like. Let's hope work gives me a random bonus so I can invest.
 

DANIELE

Active Member
This is not a bug, it was intended as a feature for Live play: the detachè KS once it's on, it works like a sustain pedal, and keep the sound forever, until the following note start, or you turn it off.
Yes, I remembered that, I wrote an EDIT 2 on my previous post while you are writing this. But is this an expected behavior even when I press STOP?
 

Bollen

Vintage Member
I agree with the walkthrough, that will be the next step of SM people (some are already under preparation)

I'm sorry for confusing you, I can give some more answers, but limited by some IP confidentiality.
I didn't mean that you have 5 voices, but 5 players per voice as a limit: if the section was a very large "round 20 players section" (made with cc95 at 127), and you have a 4 voices divisi, you will play the 4 voices passage with "round 5 players per voice" (made with cc95 at 0), to get a balanced sound.

If you need to make micro-divisi with lot of voices, then you should not use the cc95, but assign the parts to some solos instead, that was my comment. (like in real life).

Answers:

1. they are not solo violins, but the ensemble sound is made with a new proprietary technology, developed by Giorgio Tommasini. They are not made from the same instrument of course, or it would not work. I can't explain secret technical details, sorry, but the process is an extension of the Sample Modeling approach: the sound is unassembled into acoustic components that are modulated independently in 4 Kontakt modules to create all the nuances and imperfections increasing the realism of the performance, and reassembled for the final result.

2. No, just small medium or large. But the cc95 goes from 0 to 127, and can simulate roughly from 5 to 20 players. That's the reason for giving you some kind of references before.

3. The 2nd violins are sounding different, you may use them in unison like the real thing. Only PC resources are the limit. (but modern PC can run several ensembles and solos all together without the need of freezing tracks. My Mac Pro 2013 can run up to 10 multis and 4 solos + winds and percussions)
Thank you, that's much clearer! So...

1.- The question about Solo instruments was because on the website it says it includes 4 instruments, which made me think I could not have 2 solo violins playing in unison because they would produce artifacts... Namely phasing issues...(?)

2.- Right, so no possibility of controlling the individual desks, gotta play it by ear then ;)... 0=5, 127=20, so 64 would be hmmmm... Damn my math sucks!

3.- Yes, my PC can run all of VSL libraries simultaneously so it shouldn't be a problem, thank you for that!

If you can answer number 1 I promise not to bug you anymore... :notworthy:
 

Fa

Member
Thank you, that's much clearer! So...

1.- The question about Solo instruments was because on the website it says it includes 4 instruments, which made me think I could not have 2 solo violins playing in unison because they would produce artifacts... Namely phasing issues...(?)


If you can answer number 1 I promise not to bug you anymore... :notworthy:
It's a fair question, and the answer is:
- yes you may even play 2 (or more) solos in unison, if you just take very little care: you should use different body IR, and you should automate controllers in slightly different way. This last point is the more important: in real life no players can play exactly same vibrato, perfect attack, similar intonation etc. If the very same MIDI track plays 2 (or more) solos, they will sound weird, and tend to sound unreal and bandoneon-like. If you spend the time of imitating the reality (slightly different vibrato amount and rate, slightly different intonation and time for each solo player) the result will be very rewarding.

(e.g. The easiest way for differentiating intonation is writing different minimal pitchbend envelopes for each player. Shortcut is to just differentiate few cents overall intonation, but this way sounds easily fake. Pitchbend variation is better).
 

ka00

Senior Member
Hi @Fa

I bet you are busy with other things, but would you consider releasing a walk through/play through type video onto YouTube? (EDIT: I just saw that you mentioned one is in the works).

You might want to consider putting the demos into a SoundCloud playlist.

I don’t know about others, but I find these invaluable tools that help me buy with more confidence.
 
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Vardaro

Active Member
Download completed! I'm concentrating on solo instruments for now, and shall compare with other VSO-vibrato libraries: Embertone Intimate strings, Chris Hein legacy solo strings (which have non-vib patches), then Xsamples (likewise) and Kirk Hunter Spotlight Solo.

Tone? Lovely violin and viola..
Only one "body" IR for the moment; more to come..
 
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I like music

Senior Member
Download completed! I'm concentrating on solo instruments for now, and shall compare with other VSO-vibrato libraries: Embertone Intimate strings, Chris Hein legacy solo strings (which have non-vib patches), then Xsamples (likewise) and Kirk Hunter Spotlight Solo.

Tone? Lovely violin and viola..
Only one "body" IR for the moment; more to come..
Curious to see what you think!
 

DANIELE

Active Member
Another question: expressive legato articulation, how it works? From the manual it says it applies an expressive crescendo on each new legato note. Where should I put the KS. I tried with 3 legato notes, I put it at the end of the first one and heared a sort of repetition of the note before the second legato note cames in. I did the same under the end of the second note but it doesn't do anything
I'm sure I didn't understand how it works...anyone?
 

miket

Senior Member
I think what people do not like is the sound of MIR PRO 24.
There are parts of the raw sound itself that absolutely don't work for me, but MIR does seem to be a recurring offender for my ears in demos from certain developers. I've never really heard it sound anything but terrible, especially when slathered on sounds that are already a little dodgy.

Despite that, as someone who values being able to play in parts with no fuss, I do value the technology behind modeling, and hope it continues to improve in the sonic department.
 

Fa

Member
Another question: expressive legato articulation, how it works? From the manual it says it applies an expressive crescendo on each new legato note. Where should I put the KS. I tried with 3 legato notes, I put it at the end of the first one and heared a sort of repetition of the note before the second legato note cames in. I did the same under the end of the second note but it doesn't do anything
I'm sure I didn't understand how it works...anyone?
The KS has to be before the sequence of slurred notes you want to be affected, and then as usual disengaged when it's no longer requested. Being a legato, it works only if notes are in little overlapping, and it's not polyphonic.

p.s. Peter S. created it for a very special purpose of "expressive legato", but I had success using it for portato as well.
 
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robgb

I was young once
Is there someone that could help me doing this (measured tremolo at 1:35) with this library?


Thank you.
You might try this. Don't know if it would work with this particular library, however:

 

DANIELE

Active Member
The KS has to be before the sequence of slurred notes you want to be affected, and then as usual disengaged when it's no longer requested. Being a legato, it works only if notes are in little overlapping, and it's not polyphonic.

p.s. Peter S. created it for a very special purpose of "expressive legato", but I had success using it for portato as well.
Ok I tried it but it seems it affects only the first legato transition, the other ones are the same with or without the KS. For example, if I use three legato notes and I put the KS before the first one I hear this only in the legato transition between the first and the second note, nothing between the second and the third one...:confused:

Also...should the note have a minimum length? If I play short legato notes there's no difference in using or not the KS. I think I'm still not understanding how it works.

You might try this. Don't know if it would work with this particular library, however:

Ehi thank you, I'll look at this.
 
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