Sample Modeling Violin Demo: Solo Violin and SM Strings in sections.

rohandelivera

New Member
Cadenza (for an imaginary Concerto) - Rohan De Livera

http://www.sample-modeling.com/Demos/Strings/Violin/Cadenza_Rohan_de_Livera.mp3

The articulations performed were realized with the corresponding controllers (in parenthesis)

Martele (bow pressure), dbl and quad stops (poly dbl hold + pitch bend), bow direction (bow start), Detache (bow lift), Legato, Sul tasto / pont (bow position), vibrato depth, vibrato speed, Dal niente (expression curve), Harmonics, Piz, LH Piz (piz tone).

The controllers were performed on a Akai APC 20. Main expression control was via Tec Control breath controller. Controllers were tracked separately.

The orchestral entry is made up of multiple instances of the Sample Modeling Violin, Viola and Cello in sections positioned on a virtual soundstage. 4x4x3x4 (stands).

Also used 2x SM flute, 2x SM ob, 2x SM cl

The room is Bricasti Studio C close (vn1, vc), Studio C far (vn2, vla). The hall is Bricasti Gold.
 

Erik

Senior Member
My compliments Rohan, a very moving piece. You also have made a plus for the SM series here.
Did you use a hardware Bricasti or the IR's from Samplicity?
 

kavinsky

misty orchard in the middle of Czechoslovakia
somebody said that sm violin sounds a lot more natural in the higher register.
this demo proves the opposite.
 

Gzu

Member
somebody said that sm violin sounds a lot more natural in the higher register.
this demo proves the opposite.
You are right, somehow, this violin sounds very nice in the low registers...

Rohandeliveira, do you want to share with us which violin settings did you use ?

Regards G.C
 
Nicely written and beautifully played/programmed. Bravo.

I don't care if some phrases don't sound 'natural'. It's an "Imaginary" concerto anyway. And all good music is 'imaginary' in the sense that it opens up our imagination to another world.
 

rottoy

Plebeian
Cadenza (for an imaginary Concerto) - Rohan De Livera

http://www.sample-modeling.com/Demos/Strings/Violin/Cadenza_Rohan_de_Livera.mp3

The articulations performed were realized with the corresponding controllers (in parenthesis)

Martele (bow pressure), dbl and quad stops (poly dbl hold + pitch bend), bow direction (bow start), Detache (bow lift), Legato, Sul tasto / pont (bow position), vibrato depth, vibrato speed, Dal niente (expression curve), Harmonics, Piz, LH Piz (piz tone).

The controllers were performed on a Akai APC 20. Main expression control was via Tec Control breath controller. Controllers were tracked separately.

The orchestral entry is made up of multiple instances of the Sample Modeling Violin, Viola and Cello in sections positioned on a virtual soundstage. 4x4x3x4 (stands).

Also used 2x SM flute, 2x SM ob, 2x SM cl

The room is Bricasti Studio C close (vn1, vc), Studio C far (vn2, vla). The hall is Bricasti Gold.
Always loved your mockup skills, man. Great stuff!
 
OP
R

rohandelivera

New Member
Hello - thank you for the comments, compliments and questions. I've also received a couple of emails via my website so I'll answer them here. Any specific questions regarding the SM violin are best addressed to [email protected].

- The piece was performed entirely on a piano keyboard, Akai APC, and Tec BC.
- I use Logic.
- the piece doesn't go on. It's a fictitious Cadenza.
- I will attach the swam file for the settings I used to this post - however these are pretty standard, it just has all the mappings I mentioned in my original post.
- i wasn't using any of the SWAM reverb or imaging. This was done with an external hardware reverb and the Logic direction mixer.

To realize this performance - to put it simply. I phrased as close to how I felt a real violinist would approach this piece. I varied the instrument's tone in a musical context using all the controls listed in my original post to realize particular articulations. Most of these controls were not performed in real time but used subsequent passes / tracks.

eg: forte passages use more bow pressure, a faster bow (simulated with a quicker subsequent bow change and playing detache). Softer passages use less bow pressure, a more fragile tone has the bow moving closer to the finger board (as in the middle section arpeggios).

Overall if you just use an expression controller to control the Violin (via BC or mod) and only vary dynamic you will get a nice sound albeit with a more homogeneous tone, which will lend towards a robotic performance. Since the violin is so familiar, I think you will hear this easily.

With this instrument (and all the other SM instruments) it's important to tweak all the knobs.
 

Attachments

Vardaro

Active Member
rohandelivera, this is excellent, I'm even convinced by the tone...
What betrays SM (and Embertone) violins is the fast legato, especially in the higher ranges. I't just too neat: a real violin has the "plop" of the fingers "spoiling" the attacks. We need to analyse more closely the time (in ms) a new note takes to stabalise: I don't think they ever do in fast legato.
I want these libraries to play demos that my ageing fingers no longer can!
 
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Gzu

Member
rohandelivera, this is excellent, I'm even convinced by the tone...
What betrays SM (and Embertone violins) is the fast legato, especially in the higher ranges. I't just too neat: a real violin has the "plop" of the fingers "spoiling" the attacks. We need to analyse more closely the time (in ms) a new note takes to stabalise.
I want these libraries to play demos that my ageing fingers no longer can!
Exactly what I think it's missing...
 

Vardaro

Active Member
I think the other problem is that in fast legato, and with the usual presets, the vibrato hsn't time to start, and the non-vib tone sounds synthy. Real strings are anything but pure: out-of-tune and inconsistent harmonics, slight pitch bending under the bow, and above all a lag of up to 250ms before the tone becomes stable, whatever the playing speed (according to Norman C. Pickering).
I notice that the amazing SM brass (for Kontakt..) is based on samples (albeit not many). (Should they be called "physical modeling"?) This might still the best way to achieve realism in string instruments, but without the Gigabytes of samples used in Embertone or Chris Hein strings.
 

Vardaro

Active Member
rohandelivera's cadenza does show two other good features:
- a full, soloistic tone in the high reaches;
- a vibrato which can start imediately after the start of the note: on the SM viola, the vibrato offset can be as low as 100ms.
 
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pmcrockett

Senior Member
On the subject of vibrato ...

It's a pain to set up, but I've had some success in achieving real 1-to-1 vibrato response on Samplemodeling instruments. What I mean by this is that I've been able to script MIDI controllers (can be done in Lemur or Pure Data) that read both rate and intensity of a vibrato gesture and map them to CC values that Samplemodeling understands, which results in a vibrato that accurately follows the gesture. The most successful implementation of this idea has been tapping a touchscreen at the desired vibrato rate and using the x- or y-axis for intensity, but it's also possible to read, for example, the rate and distance of back-and-forth finger strokes or the up/down movement of a motion-sensing device such as a Wii controller.
 

robgb

I was young once
Any criticism of this piece is pure nitpicking. It sounds pretty wonderful.
I've tried stacking instances of SM Violin, Viola and Cello to create ensembles, but ran into phase issues, even though I used different settings for each. What's the method to your success?
 

Vardaro

Active Member
No-one is criticising either the piece nor the instrument, but yes one can nitpick to suggest further improvements, or get useful hints-and-tricks.
 

robgb

I was young once
No-one is criticising either the piece nor the instrument, but yes one can nitpick to suggest further improvements, or get useful hints-and-tricks.
Nitpicking is nitpicking in my opinion. There's no such thing as a perfect performance and, frankly, there's little reason for this piece to be improved.
 

LondonMike

Active Member
Excellent work! I think it shows the flexibility and range of expression possible with this instrument and your considerable skills!
For me, the passage that begins around 1.00 sounds slightly too perfect and hence, a little artificial. I think a passage like that would have more scratchiness and off-tuning. I wonder if with some severely detailed tweaking of parameters on a note to note basis it would be possible (though a lot of work)?

I haven't bought this yet but if ever there was a persuasive demo, your is it!
 

Vardaro

Active Member
robgb, By "further improvements" I meant from SM, not from rohandelivera !

Re: phase issues in ensembles, slightly randomised tuning should randomise the phases of the "generators"; plus minute shifting in the DAW?
 
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robgb

I was young once
robgb, By "further improvements" I meant from SM, not from rohandelivera !

Re: phase issues in ensembles, slightly randomised tuning should randomise the phases of the "generators"; plus minute shifting in the DAW?
My apologies.