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REVIEW: BBCSO Professional by Spitfire Audio

Outside of any message board where people congregate to dissect the minutiae of brand A vs brand B, there’s a world full of people who don’t care. And for them, the things we argue over, are just not worth arguing over. It’s a good thing to remember sometimes.
Spot on. I’m not sure I’ve ever said the words “Spitfire Audio” aloud to anyone.
 
@dcoscina

You'll have to forgive me for my incredibly long reply. I read your response to my statement, and gave it a little time before actually commenting, because I think you bring up some interesting points, and there's some items here that could be of real value, and perhaps even something we could take from this discussion. I've also been right in the middle of a move, so I haven't been able to focus on this forum as much as i normally do.

Anyway, here it goes...

There is no objective truth. It's all subjective. To write as if these things are fact for any and all users of this library is what generated the kind of responses.

Throughout Brian's review, you'll easily find repeated statements like,

"I’ll break down my thoughts on the sound of each"

"I am just giving my honest thoughts here"

"So I want you to keep this all in mind as I write my honest and in depth thoughts about this library"

"However, it’s simply not worth it in my opinion"

Feel free to come to whatever conclusion you wish regarding the presentation of the review (presented as fact vs opinion), but I'll just take Brian's word for it when he said back on page 1 of the thread, "Remember, the review is just, ya know, my opinions."

There are also ways of articulating a point without it being incendiary.

I certainly won't disagree with that, but I'm nowhere close to being under the conviction that this particular review was in fact incendiary.

Because it's comments like these (pulled from the review) that make me believe that Brian's intentions were actually good...

"The library, when you just sit down and start playing notes, sounds amazing, as many would expect. It sounds like a real orchestra when you play the notes. It blends together very well."

"The string ensembles here are top-tier stuff. They have an amazing amount of depth and space without sacrificing any of the detail. Overall, they are quite warm and truly a joy to play. "

"The performance legato patches are a staple in my personal composing template, I really love them that much. "

"This is simply the most realistic sampled percussion I’ve heard to date."

"I was incredibly impressed across the board here, from the insanely powerful timpani, to the beautiful tuned percussion, to the plethora of snares, cymbals, etc. Honestly, zero complaints here."

"Some of the instruments are absolutely beautiful, most namely the flutes (solo and ensemble) and the bassoons (solo and ensemble). Some of the woodwind instruments also contain performance legato patches, which is something they’ve never done before, and with the instruments that utilize it, it’s very effective and works great."

"The flutes are a standout here, as they utilize the performance legato techniques flawlessly, with an absolutely beautiful and lovely, airy tone, with an amazing sense of both depth and detail. "

"The bassoons come second to me, they sound very, very good"

"overall I love the sound of the bassoons here."

" I really like the trumpets, the legato especially, and the fantastic multitongued articulations."

So, incendiary? I don't believe so. But if you think the review's intent was to stir the pot, I'd ask you to take a look at Brian's previous reviews, because i think you'd quickly find out that's just not his style.

Is there criticism in the review? Absolutely. But I think it contains a lot of healthy criticism. Even Paul from Spitfire chimed in to say, "there still might be some useful ideas in there that can inform how we can make stuff better."

Oh and most developers don't "chime in" because they all got run off from this site. I think it's admirable (or masochistic) that Spitfire are still willing to field these types of issues.

Most developers? Hm...

Tell you what, you make a list of developers who were "run off" from this site, and I'll make a list of developers who are actively engaged on here. We'll then see who's list is longer. You up for the challenge? ;)

Joking aside, It actually saddens me a little whenever I see comments like this, because it paints an incredibly grim picture of this place, especially its members. And while I do believe these message boards have a dark side, the VI Control community does an amazing job of living up to its reputation of "Musicians Helping Musicians".

Of course, I can't speak for everyone, but from my personal experience I can honestly say i've met some of coolest people on here, and I've made life long friendships. It's why i keep returning.

So please don't make it sound like VI Control is the crucifixion grounds for developers, because most of the people here actually love discussing the libraries they create. We want to see developers succeed. We want to see developers do better. We want them to produce libraries that truly are game changers, and push the technology into uncharted territory.

In a way, their success is our success. We can't do it without them, and they can't do it without us.
Additionally, if the OP writes his views, well, by virtue of free speech, then aren't others allowed to counter without being indicted as "fanboys" or "covert Spitfire employees?" #doublestandard


And maybe this can be the starting point? Maybe when someone critiques a sample library that's adored by others, it won't be met with hostility, backlash, or the ever so popular "Well, it works just fine on my machine, so you must be doing something wrong" type of response, because it isn't helpful.

And maybe when someone defends a library they love, they won't be referred to as a fanboy, or shill. Maybe we can take a few moments to try and understand why they love their favorite libraries so much.

Maybe we can try a little harder to find common ground, and understand where the other person is coming from. It's perfectly OK to disagree on things, but i think how we disagree is what's important.

I just don't think we should be afraid to offer criticism, and we shouldn't be shamed for it either, especially when it comes to our honest thoughts and feelings towards these libraries that we spend so much time and money on.

Unfortunately, it's really easy to get caught up in the heat of the moment, and lose our cool. We're musicians, and we're passionate about what we do. We're a highly emotional people. But i think we can do this in a fashion that doesn't involve personal insults. After-all, a wise man once said, "There are also ways of articulating a point without it being incendiary." :)

So, I'll wrap this ridiculously long post up by saying that for the longest time I held the belief that sample libraries were just sample libraries. Nothing more.

But I've very recently come to the realization that they aren't just sample libraries, are they?

For a developer, a sample library is a work of art, which started as a simple thought fueled by the desire to create something meaningful and beautiful, and something that could perhaps benefit other musicians. These developers invested countless hours breathing life into their creation. It's their baby. No wonder they defend it, even if it isn't perfect.

And for us consumers it's also more than just a sample library. It's our hobby. It's our passion. It's the tools that make our careers so much easier. It's something we NEED to be useful and enjoyable, because we also spent countless hours working hard to be able to afford these libraries, and also figuring out how to use them to their maximum potential. They're an investment.

But most importantly (for me anyway) sample libraries are a way to escape the stress and burdens of reality, and they provide us with the opportunity to express our musical inner voice. They're priceless in that sense.

Anyway, I really don't have anything else to add to this insanely long post, so if you've made it this far, thank you (and anyone else) for taking the time to do so.

Cheers,

Mike
 
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@dcoscina

You'll have to forgive me for my incredibly long reply. I read your response to my statement, and gave it a little time before actually commenting, because I think you bring up some interesting points, and there's some items here that could be of real value, and perhaps even something we could take from this discussion. I've also been right in the middle of a move, so I haven't been able to focus on this forum as much as i normally do.

Anyway, here it goes...



Throughout Brian's review, you'll easily find repeated statements like,

"I’ll break down my thoughts on the sound of each"

"I am just giving my honest thoughts here"

"So I want you to keep this all in mind as I write my honest and in depth thoughts about this library"

"However, it’s simply not worth it in my opinion"

Feel free to come to whatever conclusion you wish regarding the presentation of the review (presented as fact vs opinion), but I'll just take Brian's word for it when he said back on page 1 of the thread, "Remember, the review is just, ya know, my opinions."



I certainly won't disagree with that, but I'm nowhere close to being under the conviction that this particular review was in fact incendiary.

Because it's comments like these (pulled from the review) that make me believe that Brian's intentions were actually good...

"The library, when you just sit down and start playing notes, sounds amazing, as many would expect. It sounds like a real orchestra when you play the notes. It blends together very well."

"The string ensembles here are top-tier stuff. They have an amazing amount of depth and space without sacrificing any of the detail. Overall, they are quite warm and truly a joy to play. "

"The performance legato patches are a staple in my personal composing template, I really love them that much. "

"This is simply the most realistic sampled percussion I’ve heard to date."

"I was incredibly impressed across the board here, from the insanely powerful timpani, to the beautiful tuned percussion, to the plethora of snares, cymbals, etc. Honestly, zero complaints here."

"Some of the instruments are absolutely beautiful, most namely the flutes (solo and ensemble) and the bassoons (solo and ensemble). Some of the woodwind instruments also contain performance legato patches, which is something they’ve never done before, and with the instruments that utilize it, it’s very effective and works great."

"The flutes are a standout here, as they utilize the performance legato techniques flawlessly, with an absolutely beautiful and lovely, airy tone, with an amazing sense of both depth and detail. "

"The bassoons come second to me, they sound very, very good"

"overall I love the sound of the bassoons here."

" I really like the trumpets, the legato especially, and the fantastic multitongued articulations."

So, incendiary? I don't believe so. But if you think the review's intent was to stir the pot, I'd ask you to take a look at Brian's previous reviews, because i think you'd quickly find out that's just not his style.

Is there criticism in the review? Absolutely. But I think it contains a lot of healthy criticism. Even Paul from Spitfire chimed in to say, "there still might be some useful ideas in there that can inform how we can make stuff better."



Most developers? Hm...

Tell you what, you make a list of developers who were "run off" from this site, and I'll make a list of developers who are actively engaged on here. We'll then see who's list is longer. You up for the challenge? ;)

Joking aside, It actually saddens me a little whenever I see comments like this, because it paints an incredibly grim picture of this place, especially its members. And while I do believe these message boards have a dark side, the VI Control community does an amazing job of living up to its reputation of "Musicians Helping Musicians".

Of course, I can't speak for everyone, but from my personal experience I can honestly say i've met some of coolest people on here, and I've made life long friendships. It's why i keep returning.

So please don't make it sound like VI Control is the crucifixion grounds for developers, because most of the people here actually love discussing the libraries they create. We want to see developers succeed. We want to see developers do better. We want them to produce libraries that truly are game changers, and push the technology into uncharted territory.

In a way, their success is our success. We can't do it without them, and they can't do it without us.



And maybe this can be the starting point? Maybe when someone critiques a sample library that's adored by others, it won't be met with hostility, backlash, or the ever so popular "Well, it works just fine on my machine, so you must be doing something wrong" type of response, because it isn't helpful.

And maybe when someone defends a library they love, they won't be referred to as a fanboy, or shill. Maybe we can take a few moments to try and understand why they love their favorite libraries so much.

Maybe we can try a little harder to find common ground, and understand where the other person is coming from. It's perfectly OK to disagree on things, but i think how we disagree is what's important.

I just don't think we should be afraid to offer criticism, and we shouldn't be shamed for it either, especially when it comes to our honest thoughts and feelings towards these libraries that we spend so much time and money on.

Unfortunately, it's really easy to get caught up in the heat of the moment, and lose our cool. We're musicians, and we're passionate about what we do. We're a highly emotional people. But i think we can do this in a fashion that doesn't involve personal insults. After-all, a wise man once said, "There are also ways of articulating a point without it being incendiary." :)

So, I'll wrap this ridiculously long post up by saying that for the longest time I held the belief that sample libraries were just sample libraries. Nothing more.

But I've very recently come to the realization that they aren't just sample libraries, are they?

For a developer, a sample library is a work of art, which started as a simple thought fueled by the desire to create something meaningful and beautiful, and something that could perhaps benefit other musicians. These developers invested countless hours breathing life into their creation. It's their baby. No wonder they defend it, even if it isn't perfect.

And for us consumers it's also more than just a sample library. It's our hobby. It's our passion. It's the tools that make our careers so much easier. It's something we NEED to be useful and enjoyable, because we also spent countless hours working hard to be able to afford these libraries, and also figuring out how to use them to their maximum potential. They're an investment.

But most importantly (for me anyway) sample libraries are a way to escape the stress and burdens of reality, and they provide us with the opportunity to express our musical inner voice. They're priceless in that sense.

Anyway, I really don't have anything else to add to this insanely long post, so if you've made it this far, thank you (and anyone else) for taking the time to do so.

Cheers,

Mike
Hey Mike I appreciate the very thoughtful response. You bring up some good points.

Ive been on this forum since 2005 and I have seen the overall tenor change mind you. While there’s nothing wrong with raising questions to developers, the manner in which some do so is aggressive and hostile. Now this wasn’t the OP critique but more how the thread devolved including conspiracy theories and such. This kind element wasn’t present back a decade or so ago, at least from what I can recall (John G or Jose might be able to confirm that since they have also been around for a while).

anyhow, maybe because of Covid or the fact that we are all cooped up and such is having an effect on patience and boiling points. Who knows..

On a different note hope the move went well!
 
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Speaking as one who was a published reviewer for several years, the devil is in the details of any so-called numerical rating. It’s one thing to read/watch an honest evaluation of a product based on that user’s experience. But when opinion morphs into a kind of a buyer’s guide, rubber-stamped ratings changes the dynamics - it becomes fair game to question the methodology being used.

The pitfall of claiming objectivity is just that, because any review can only speak to that party’s experience. It’s all subjective, really. What some are objecting to here is not so much content but context, and specifically, how the message or messenger are perceived as attempting to speak in a broader voice “on behalf of,” while others experience with BBCSO differs from his.

It brings to mind the last time I watched a Daniel James video - about eight years ago. He was covering a product I had also bought, and I was curious as to how others were using it. What he “did with it” bore no resemblance to the library as I knew it. None. We might as well have been talking about two different libraries, in fact.

FWIW, proofreading is also a thing that can bolster a reviewer’s credibility.
 
Speaking as one who was a published reviewer for several years, the devil is in the details of any so-called numerical rating. It’s one thing to read/watch an honest evaluation of a product based on that user’s experience. But when opinion morphs into a kind of a buyer’s guide, rubber-stamped ratings changes the dynamics - it becomes fair game to question the methodology being used.

The pitfall of claiming objectivity is just that, because any review can only speak to that party’s experience. It’s all subjective, really. What some are objecting to here is not so much content but context, and specifically, how the message or messenger are perceived as attempting to speak in a broader voice “on behalf of,” while others experience with BBCSO differs from his.

It brings to mind the last time I watched a Daniel James video - about eight years ago. He was covering a product I had also bought, and I was curious as to how others were using it. What he “did with it” bore no resemblance to the library as I knew it. None. We might as well have been talking about two different libraries, in fact.

FWIW, proofreading is also a thing that can bolster a reviewer’s credibility.
Agreed. product reviews with numeric ratings are superficial and non productive.
 
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On a related note, there is a new demo posted that uses the BBCSO update.

It’s sounds amazing. Alas- Brass is mostly absent.

Well it's Andy Blaney so yeah, it's awesome! Love the music and all of the exposed instrument lines. He's really at the top for demos. His music is so layered and sublime. Dude is straight up awesome.

Blaney fan here. Admittedly.
 
Speaking as one who was a published reviewer for several years, the devil is in the details of any so-called numerical rating. It’s one thing to read/watch an honest evaluation of a product based on that user’s experience. But when opinion morphs into a kind of a buyer’s guide, rubber-stamped ratings changes the dynamics - it becomes fair game to question the methodology being used.

The pitfall of claiming objectivity is just that, because any review can only speak to that party’s experience. It’s all subjective, really. What some are objecting to here is not so much content but context, and specifically, how the message or messenger are perceived as attempting to speak in a broader voice “on behalf of,” while others experience with BBCSO differs from his.

It brings to mind the last time I watched a Daniel James video - about eight years ago. He was covering a product I had also bought, and I was curious as to how others were using it. What he “did with it” bore no resemblance to the library as I knew it. None. We might as well have been talking about two different libraries, in fact.

FWIW, proofreading is also a thing that can bolster a reviewer’s credibility.
this !

best

ed
 
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