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Regarding Pre-recorded Atonal/Aleatoric/Cluster FX Libraries ...

MSutherlandComp

M.M. Student, Composer
To preface, this subject falls somewhere between sample libraries, notation, and orchestration.

I've recently come to my senses and realized that there are many aleatoric FX, etc. that bread and butter sample libraries don't typically come with. To clarify, I'm speaking not of pre-recorded phrases - but rather, pre-recorded cluster longs and shorts, pre-recorded string slides (not legato slurs) and any derivative articulations of such, ultra-specific articulations, et cetera. In short, things that can be approximated with many sample libraries, but that simply sound better when pre-recorded.

Knowing this, I've been using Metropolis Ark 3 and Albion IV to fill these gaps thus far, but there's one thing that has bothered me, that I wish Sample Devs would consider when releasing libraries such as these.

Notation. Why aren't they offering the conductor's scores as accessory - or even to purchase - to these libraries? Aurally notating effects and colors such as these can prove somewhat difficult due to their inherent ambiguity. I am, of course, studying scores etc. - But in the meantime, it would make actually notating the piece much faster if I didn't have to create my own wonky notation for each effect, and hope for the best when it comes time to record.

If developers such as Sonokinetic are willing to offer them for purchase for their phrase-based libraries (which they would arguably have even more reason to withhold, from a creative rights standpoint), why can't we get them for libraries from companies such as Spitfire or Orchestral Tools, that simply contain articulations, and aleatoric FX? Surely they must exist, as the consistency between the cluster/atonal/aleatoric effects in the patches is spot on (i.e. the same cluster voicing but built upon each available trigger note, the same articulation on every note for multiple octaves, etc). I'm sure there are at least a few VI-Control denizens other than me who would appreciate such an option!

I figured this would be the appropriate place to ask, as those who actually use pre-recorded aleatoric and cluster FX libs would have the most experience with the subject.

I would also like to add that I wholeheartedly appreciate what the folks at companies such as Spitfire and Orchestral Tools are doing! Perhaps I am being too greedy. :)

I'll attach a quick example that I slammed together before posting, so that people understand what I am referring to. Fair warning, it has a lot of cluster patches in it, so it may be pretty grating - but it's just for clarification.
 

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RonOrchComp

Senior Member
why can't we get them for libraries from companies such as Spitfire or Orchestral Tools, that simply contain articulations, and aleatoric FX?

Not sure about OT, but in the case of Spitfire (UIST), it isn't Paul and Christian doing the orchestrations. There's a third party doing it, and they may have by condition, disallowed Spitfire from releasing that info.

Ultimately, it won't matter too much.

Any good orchestrator should be able to say, "ok, the sample sounds like this, so the players are going to play..." Is it going to sound exactly the same? No, but the difference would probably be the same difference as if you gave the players the sheet music from the sample lib recording sessions.
 
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MSutherlandComp

MSutherlandComp

M.M. Student, Composer
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Not sure about OT, but in the case of Spitfire (UIST), it isn't Paul and Christian doing the orchestrations. There's a third party doing it, and they may have by condition, disallowed Spitfire from releasing that info.

This is a really good point, one which I hadn't considered.

Ultimately, it won't matter too much.

Any good orchestrator should be able to say, "ok, the sample sounds like this, so the players are going to play..." Is it going to sound exactly the same? No, but the difference would probably be the same difference as if you gave the players the sheet music from the sample lib recording sessions.

I suppose that what I am trying to get at, is that there would be some educational potential in releasing conductor's scores, for newer orchestrators such as myself. Considering the proportion of SF's customers who are current students, I think it would be fair to say that said educational potential would inform more than a few individuals. To have so many Orchestral FX laid out in full score, clear as day, in such a condensed form, would be astounding - in my opinion.
 

Niah2

Senior Member
Not sure about OT, but in the case of Spitfire (UIST), it isn't Paul and Christian doing the orchestrations. There's a third party doing it, and they may have by condition, disallowed Spitfire from releasing that info.

Ultimately, it won't matter too much.

Any good orchestrator should be able to say, "ok, the sample sounds like this, so the players are going to play..." Is it going to sound exactly the same? No, but the difference would probably be the same difference as if you gave the players the sheet music from the sample lib recording sessions.

Absolutely! I have worked with remote orchestras in the past and have "thrown" quite a few sound files with these type of fx from spitfire and orchestral tools libraries and was in awe of how incredibly close the orchestra was.

For my own effects I record myself performing said instrument (usually violin and cello) and make very detailed instructions on how to play. And I am usually very happy with the result.

Btw, Ben Foskett is the orchestator that worked with Spitfire Audio on Albion IV. You can try and contact him to give some directions on what kind of educational resources are out there to help you.

Just my two cents.
 
If you're interested in textural/aleatoric music, go to the source (i.e. the Polish Avant-gardists). You'll find more valuable ideas in a score by Lutoslawski than almost anywhere else. You can find his scores (and his contemporary's) online, and books which explain his/their techniques, which, when you understand them, are relatively simple, but sound extremely complex.
 
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