Recommendations for someone who wants to leave Cubase.

[Bender-offender]

Disclaimer: I didn’t read all the posts in this thread, so forgive me if others already said this.

Main point: I think if you switch from Cubase to a different DAW you’re just going to find all its bugs and quirks and then dislike it as well.

I say this because I’ve been in your shoes and have used DP, Logic, Pro Tools, and Cubase extensively and I always find things that I really dislike then start thinking about switching DAWs again. In the end, I always return to Cubase because, despite Steinberg not maintaining it well, it does everything I need and want from a DAW (with occasional extreme frustration).

I have briefly tested Reaper and Studio One years ago, so I cannot speak for either, though I imagine they are just as good as the aforementioned DAWs but with their own quirks.

 

[JohnG]

I use DP and it does address at least one of your frustrations with Cubase (multiple outputs) [edit: actually I'm not sure I understand what you're driving at so maybe DP will not solve your particular issue]. And, as someone else posted, you can customise the shortcuts to match those in Cubase to ease the transition.

I've had good results with MOTU customer service over many years, though I haven't tested that in some time now.

That said, it's likely there will be features of Cubase that you'd miss in any alternative.

 

[meradium]

As you can see in my signature I just recently gave Reaper a serious run-through coming also from Cubase 9.5.

To be honest, my experience with it so far is a bit mixed...

It is absolutely stunning in terms of customization and in particular the offered built-in scripting capabilities which no other DAW I know of offers. Yet, this comes at a considerable cost.

If you love programming a bit and are not afraid to hunt down web forums in search for even (coming from Cubase camp) seemingly simple functions you might find it to be quite a daunting exercise. Then again, if you spend you time you will most likely find a scripted "workaround" offered by someone in the community (or by writing it your own) which eventually might supersede your accustomed Cubase workflow entirely.

Just definitely be prepared that it will take considerable TIME to setup everything the way you want it or are comfortable to work with.

It took me two attempts to set it up. My initial custom setup was... mehh.... so I reset everything starting from scratch. Now I found a much better custom configuration... but I am still in the setup phase.

Latest gotcha: how to make the MIDI Editor remember its window size and position regardless of the double-clicked media item... but I am sure eventually I will find also a solution for that bugger...

The GUI is a bit messy IMHO. But you get used to it. I am still struggling to find a good theme.

There are some absolutely great user contributions e.g. for MIDI editing and particularly the articulation management plugin Reaticulate contributed by @tack . The later one simply blows the socks off of Cubase's internal variant.

 

[Vik]

I'm specifically looking for opinions on other DAWs, hopefully from people who have also used Cubase. I'm not happy at all about having to learn another DAW, but I'm personally at the end of my rope with Cubase these days and can learn in my downtime, to consider another DAW.

Thanks!

Hi! This could easily end up as some thread which tries to compare Cubase with many other DAWs, which may be a less ideal situation than a few threads comparing Cubase with each of the DAWs out there which you think may be interesting for you.

And - some of these threads already exist. I was equally frustrated with Logic a while ago, and started a thread comparing Cubase and Logic at some point (ended up buying Cubase, which I almost never use partially due to frustration with too many solutions that are implemented, IMO, in ways that everything but obvious for new users, but that may be a Steinberg thing and not specific to Cubase). Here's one of these threads:
https://vi-control.net/community/th...d-cubase-for-use-with-sample-libraries.61884/
This was written, btw, before Logic 10.4 which contained some important improvements.

But good luck - you're probably going to need it!

 

[Øivind]

Hmm, have you tried to run VEpro in Cubase as a Rack instrument instead of Track instrument? Should clear up any issues you have with VEpro and multiple outputs, unless i misunderstood your problem.

 

[Jeremy Spencer]

Hmm, have you tried to run VEpro in Cubase as a Rack instrument instead of Track instrument? Should clear up any issues you have with VEpro and multiple outputs, unless i misunderstood your problem.

Yes, and Cubase has the best VEPro routing options when using the VST3 version, it is wonderful. I really with they would make a similar version for Logic.

 

[Shad0wLandsUK]

'
I was thinking about that, yeah. I used to be on Windows with it and got tired of the dealing with Windows' issues so I switched to Mac, but that was about four years ago and I now hear about many Mac users (including a few people I personally know) switching over to Windows. It's a little scary, of course.

But a lot of my frustration is also with workflow issues/some significant bugs that haven't been addressed in many years. With 9.5 they did listen to people for what seemed like the first time in many years, but they still have a lot of work to do and it's literally almost impossible to get support from them. They also are famous for barely ever responding in their own forums, which is tiring and alienating.

I can second and third it being more stable and performing far better on Windows.

I recently purchased Cubase, because I am considering moving from macOS, due to ITS bugs

EDIT: Had to remove the Cubase Session image as this was from another test. The you are looking at was running 200 instances of VEP at multiple buffer sizes:-
512/256/128/64
64-Bit Proessing, ASIO Guard on Max

But here are some results I found with Cubase on each platform:

 

[Jeremy Spencer]

I never trust that "audio performance" meter in Cubase, I've seen it go to nearly 50% when it's just idling in Windows.

 

[SBK]

I have a reccomendation from Cubase 3-4-5 user that gone to Reaper and FL Studio....Just return to Cubase! :D Reaper is lovely and very advanced but lacks "smoothness" of graphics and functions, FL Studio is awesome and fast but they can't even handle latency of plugins in parallel buses, how do you call that PCD?

 

[dcoscina]

I agree with you ... and I own all the ones you have mentioned except DP.

I still think Logic is very usable for the work the OP does.

I’d been using Cubase for the last 2 years having come from DP. For some reason, perhaps as of 3 months back, it’s been giving me no end of problems. So I moved to LPX having taken a break from Logic since 2007. I was amazed at how efficient LPX is on my CPU and while some work flow isn’t as fast as I’d like, I’m digging the new stuff like the articulation feature. Expression maps never quite took for me in a Cubase. So one more plug for LPX

 

[meradium]

... just to add one more example to the Reaper story of love-and-hate relationship. I just stumbled across a rather strange (again from Cubase perspective) issue: How do you toggle the metronome on or off while working inside the Midi Editor?

...

In the base setup you cannot You can only toggle it in the main arrangement window. But wait... what you need to do to make it work:

1. Define a keyboard shortcut for the metronome in the main window, e.g. "c" via the actions settings for the main window
   
2. Then switch to the actions settings of the Midi Editor and look for action "Misc: Pass through key to main window"
3. Here also define an additional (!) shortcut mapping to "c"
4. Hurray! Done! Now you can toggle the metronome from both worlds via pressing "c" on your keyboard.

Simple, isn't it?

So in case you give it a shot be prepared for surprises. To be honest though I have to mention that it took me only a few mins to find an online post in the Reaper forums to outline this solution. Could be worse...

 

[germancomponist]

Interesting. Today I worked on an old computer where is installed Cubase 5. I had no problems, it still worked perfect.

 

[sinkd]

If I were starting over right now I would probably be going with Cubase on Windows 10. But I am a basically happy DP user (Mac OS) otherwise, now that VEPro works again in High Sierra. Like 5 months we waited. Don't ask.

 

[Zoot_Rollo]

Studio One Pro v4.0.1 and VEPro 6 here.

Windows 10 Pro.

 

[samphony]

I would try running Cubase of an SSD with a fresh install of macOS. Only install cubase, VEP and the libraries you need. Do a Test for a couple of days with just that setup without running any third party plugins.

Does it run more stable now? Yes?

1.) Make a clone backup or dmg of that setup.
2.) Start installing your third party plugins step by step with tests in between.

Repeat 1.) & 2.) until you’ve satisfied

One of many possible ways to figure out the issues you have with your daw in relation to third party hard and software involved.

Don’t forget. The issues you have can depend on your user account, hardware and or third party plugins or other software running in parallel.


I had serious issues recently and it turned out that my macOS user account was screwed. A reset or step back to an earlier backup fixed that issue.

 

[Headlands]

Hmm, have you tried to run VEpro in Cubase as a Rack instrument instead of Track instrument? Should clear up any issues you have with VEpro and multiple outputs, unless i misunderstood your problem.

It doesn't because Track Instruments have only the first output combined with a MIDI track -- every other output has to have a separate MIDI track. Again, this has been complained about tons on the Cubase forum for years.

 

[Headlands]

I would try running Cubase of an SSD with a fresh install of macOS. Only install cubase, VEP and the libraries you need. Do a Test for a couple of days with just that setup without running any third party plugins.

Does it run more stable now? Yes?

1.) Make a clone backup or dmg of that setup.
2.) Start installing your third party plugins step by step with tests in between.

Repeat 1.) & 2.) until you’ve satisfied

One of many possible ways to figure out the issues you have with your daw in relation to third party hard and software involved.

Don’t forget. The issues you have can depend on your user account, hardware and or third party plugins or other software running in parallel.


I had serious issues recently and it turned out that my macOS user account was screwed. A reset or step back to an earlier backup fixed that issue.

That's good advice -- I'll try starting out over with a brand new OS. Or I might the suggestion here to Boot Camp Windows since I understand Cubase performs better on it with overall "snappiness" and GUI.

 

[Øivind]

It doesn't because Track Instruments have only the first output combined with a MIDI track -- every other output has to have a separate MIDI track. Again, this has been complained about tons on the Cubase forum for years.

My initial question remains, have you tried Rack instrument instead of Track instrument?

Also, i would recommend watching som great VEpro & Cubase tutorials.

Videos from Jason Graves, lots of Cubase & VEpro specific videos:
https://www.youtube.com/user/jgmusic408/videos

Playlist from: Dirk Ehlert


Playlist from: Mihkel Zilmer

 

[Headlands]

My initial question remains, have you tried Rack instrument instead of Track instrument?

Also, i would recommend watching som great VEpro & Cubase tutorials.

Videos from Jason Graves, lots of Cubase & VEpro specific videos:
https://www.youtube.com/user/jgmusic408/videos

Playlist from: Dirk Ehlert


Playlist from: Mihkel Zilmer

I think I'm confusing the Track Instrument and Rack Instrument (I always confuse the names). My bad! I've always used Rack Instruments in my VE Pro setup, have been using it for a while that way from day one. What I'm talking about is the fact that Track Instruments would be easier to use/better than Rack Instruments with VE Pro if they were developed further and better, instead of being stuck with having separate MIDI and Audio Output tracks for every output (aside from the first one as it is now), and not being able to label the first audio output properly. It would reduce your track count by half as far as the VE Pro setup (and all of your virtual multi-output instruments that you have in Cubase), if it were implemented in Cubase properly. You could still use extra MIDI tracks on their own if you wanted/desired, but the flexibility/movability and ease of use would be night and day for VE Pro, if Track Instruments were developed fully and implemented properly.

 

[Headlands]

You know what , after reading what you've all written I think I'll stick with Cubase for now and try doing the Windows thing on my Mac (even though even the most powerful Macs are underpowered compared to Windows and have worse audio performance than Windows -- if it's working well I would get a custom mega-powerful Windows machine that would blow the doors off of my Mac Pro). You've all made some very good points about issues with every DAW. Cubase is a great DAW in so many ways. My main gripe with Steinberg is the tragically bad customer support and the fact that there are many bugs/issues that never get fixed after years and years, some being very significant to one's workflow. I could list those, but that's a whole other thread.