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Question about Vienna Ensemble Pro outputs' impact on performance.

choppy777

New Member
I have been building an orchestral template using VEPro into Cubase (Nuendo actually). I have been building it with 2 outputs per Kontakt instrument, one for long articulations and another for short articulations so I can apply different processing to them within Nuendo.

I don't have many libraries at the moment, mainly the Spitfire Studio Professional series. Each instrument has 6 different mic positions to choose from and I recently discovered how to route each mic to its own output within Kontakt. What I am considering doing is making a separate output for each mic position so I can choose later whether or not I want to pan each mic separately for a better stereo image. This would result in 12 outputs per instrument instead of the 2 I am currently using. This would put my one brass library to 408 outputs alone.

Is there any noticeable performance impact for having so many more outputs? I don't imagine I would use every mic all the time but I would like to have the option there when I want it. Would it be too messy if I try to go back later and add additional outputs when I want them?

This is my first template and I am only running a single machine, so I don't know how far I should push it. I have a 6 core i7 8700k with 64 GB of RAM.

Thanks all, any insight is greatly appreciated!
 
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choppy777

New Member
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I think I just answered my own question. I experimented with just enabling the 408 outputs that I would need instead of the 68 I am currently using and my CPU usage went from around 18% to a constant 30% with a peak of 40% after they first loaded. This is without anything actually playing. Unfortunately I don't think running a template of that size is doable on a single machine. Oh well.
 

Epimetheus1707

New Member
Good on you for starting to dive into VEP and templates! I will make your work much more streamlined. In my template I decided to go with no more than three mic positions per instrument. Close, mid and tree works great for woodwinds and brass depending on the project. With strings I only use close and tree mics, but I route the longs and shorts differently, as you do too. With percussion I also limit my template to close and tree mics.

In a full ensemble context you rarely need more than one mic per instrument because your mix is about blending than depth. This is an interesting article on this topic: https://orchestraltools.helpscoutdocs.com/article/128-reverbation-and-placement

Also, as you build your template, don't over-think it. The goal is to have it be an environment that always gives you a good general sound to start of with.

Hope that helps!
 

dadadave

Active Member
also consider submixing directly in VePro to avoid so many outputs

If you submix in VePro, is there any advantage to just submixing inside that specific kontakt (or other sample player) instance? All I can think of is that you have all the instruments nicely laid out in VEPro's mixer (and that might be worth it already), but is there anything else I might be missing? The downside of submixing in VEPro is that you still have to change focus from your DAW and have your mixing split across multiple apps (and windows), I guess.

I'm currently also planning ahead to create a template, hence why I ask...
 

Dewdman42

Senior Member
the VePro mixer channels has FX plugin slots so you can apply EQ, sends to other bus channels, etc just like in your DAW. Its much much better then mixing directly in Kontakt.

Now as to whether you should have to go back and forth between two different apps, that is definitely a consideration. However, if you have a hundreds of audio channels being routed between VePro and your DAW in order to mix it all in the DAW, then there is going to be some overhead associated with that, especially if you use VePro slaves.

Some other advantages of sub mixing in VePro, is that you can establish a "mix" or your orchestra and then easily switch between different projects in your DAW...not only without having to reload samples, but the mix will remain consistent across those projects.
 

maestro2be

Senior Member
I am not 100% sure how much performance hit there is once the projects up and running but I absolutely know it impacts the loading time of the project as the count goes up.

I try to keep all mixing in VE Pro unless it's a plugin that doesn't work there (VST3 or one that crashes).
 

Ben

VSL
I would also suggest to do use sub-mixes in VEP. You can automate the mixer and FX for things you change all the time.
And you can create multiple versions of your instruments with different characteristics and use the automation to disable the ones you don't need at the moment.
 
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