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Project colossal - css template - EXPANSION OUT

Hi there! Got the template today and it "looks" good :) As a Logic user I thought I could use is with VEPro but it seems more complicated.

To get access to multiple ports Logic needs the VEPro plugin AudioUnit3. If I connect a single VEPro AU3 plugin to the template there's no connection happening. I can click on 'connect' but no reaction. Nothing audible. No successfull connection to VEPro. If I then click on 'disconnect' Logic and VEPro freeze and I have to force quit both. I tried that a few times. Not just with this template. Even with a single instance with one instrument. No connection - freeze. Unusable. I'm on Catalina, newest Logic & VEPro7.

The regular AU version of the VEPro plugin in Logic works without problems but then I have only access to port 1 (Piano, Piccolo, Horns, Violins1). 16 MIDI channels. That's it.

Another thing: I wanted to use the Split Articulation version to set different negative delay times for each articulation. But Logic doesn't have different delay time settings for each MIDI channel. It works per track/plugin.
The standard way to connect VEPro with Logic is one Instance of VEPro per instrument. That solves the port-problem but not the track delay.
A lesson I learned: avoid multis in Logic as much as possible. It works somehow but mainly Logic is designed to have one intrument per track.

Now is the question how to reorganize it.

One way would be to have one instance of VEPro per section per articulation. So all woodwinds legato, all woodwinds sustain etc per VEPro instance.

But my dream setup would be two VEPro instances per instrument: one track for legatos and one key-switched track for the faster notes (pizz, spicc, stacc etc... to marcato... so all the 50ms delay articulations).

Is it possible to keep the routing and mix of the template by copying VEPro instances and deleting the non-wanted Kontakts?
Hi Saxer!

Sorry to hear that!

That really sucks! 1 track per instruments seems such a waste of cpu power! This IS the reason i did not use one track per articulation. Even my 128 gb machine did not like 1 kontakt per articulation. I guess the best way for you to go forward is to use the kontakt multis provided in the plugin preset folder in you access link. Also the standalone logic version is officially in the making. So you COULD wait for that version to get the proper routing and plugin settings. Then make connections to your VEP variant and copy paste the correct plugin settings? Hope we can solve this asap!

Lets continue this via pm or email [email protected]

Rico
 
Hope we can solve this asap!
Thanks! But there's no need to hurry. I have a CSS template in Logic with two Kontakts per instrument (one for legato, one for shorts - but stereo out only). It runs fine on my 128 GB 12core Mac. The around 60 Kontakt instances for CSS don't need a lot of RAM and very low CPU when not playing. Mainly I was curious about your mix and efx settings. So I'll wait for the Logic version.

Probably the current AU3 VEPro plugin is buggy or it's a bug on the Apple side. AU3 is officially still in beta anyway. Maybe they will fix that soon. I think the last versions were running fine. For the Logic template it would be cool to have a corresponding VEPro version too.
 
Hi there! Got the template today and it "looks" good :) As a Logic user I thought I could use is with VEPro but it seems more complicated.

To get access to multiple ports Logic needs the VEPro plugin AudioUnit3. If I connect a single VEPro AU3 plugin to the template there's no connection happening. I can click on 'connect' but no reaction. Nothing audible. No successfull connection to VEPro. If I then click on 'disconnect' Logic and VEPro freeze and I have to force quit both. I tried that a few times. Not just with this template. Even with a single instance with one instrument. No connection - freeze. Unusable. I'm on Catalina, newest Logic & VEPro7.

The regular AU version of the VEPro plugin in Logic works without problems but then I have only access to port 1 (Piano, Piccolo, Horns, Violins1). 16 MIDI channels. That's it.

Another thing: I wanted to use the Split Articulation version to set different negative delay times for each articulation. But Logic doesn't have different delay time settings for each MIDI channel. It works per track/plugin.
The standard way to connect VEPro with Logic is one instance of VEPro per instrument. That solves the port-problem but not the track delay.
A lesson I learned: avoid multis in Logic as much as possible. It works somehow but mainly Logic is designed to have one intrument per track.

Now is the question how to reorganize it.

One way would be to have one instance of VEPro per section per articulation. So all woodwinds legato, all woodwinds sustain etc per VEPro instance.

But my dream setup would be two VEPro instances per instrument: one track for legatos and one key-switched track for the faster notes (pizz, spicc, stacc etc... to marcato... so all the 50ms delay articulations).

Is it possible to keep the routing and mix of the template by copying VEPro instances and deleting the non-wanted Kontakts?
Hi,

I pretty quickly made a logic template with the VEPro template. Its true you need AU3 of VEPro but it worked fine for me...are you sure you're using the multi-out version of VEPro? You need to do that and then set the outputs within VEPro (the stem outputs in the mixer) to the correct outputs.

In fact, because AU3 within Logic only gives you 5 ports and the template uses up to 13 ports per instance, the easiest way to set up this template with Logic is to duplicate VEPro instances for those that use above 5 and then create a whole new track for those channels. Then you can delete the channels that are redundant in VEPro.

Seems to be working well for me and all the routing seems to hold up

I'm also on Catalina and 10.6.1 with the latest VEPro 7
 
I have a CSS template in Logic with two Kontakts per instrument (one for legato, one for shorts - but stereo out only).
Also, I too use 2 tracks per instrument (Legato, everything else) so it was actually great that Rico provided A and B instances in VEPro because I just called them Legato and Everything Else in logic.
 
Its true you need AU3 of VEPro but it worked fine for me...are you sure you're using the multi-out version of VEPro? You need to do that and then set the outputs within VEPro (the stem outputs in the mixer) to the correct outputs.
Hm... sounds good but I can't get it to work. The connection "looks" ok but no sound. Kontakts in VEPro stay purged. And I can't disconnect without freezing VEPro.
AU3 multi out (25xStereo) and 3 Auxes in Logic with the VEPro input 3-4, 5-6, 7-8.
And I just got the message in Logic "An Audio Unit plugin has reported a problem that causes system instability. Quit Logic and restart". VEPro was the only AU in that song.
 
Hm... sounds good but I can't get it to work. The connection "looks" ok but no sound. Kontakts in VEPro stay purged. And I can't disconnect without freezing VEPro.
AU3 multi out (25xStereo) and 3 Auxes in Logic with the VEPro input 3-4, 5-6, 7-8.
And I just got the message in Logic "An Audio Unit plugin has reported a problem that causes system instability. Quit Logic and restart". VEPro was the only AU in that song.
Can you roll back to a slightly older version of VEP? See if that helps
 
I literally had a meeting about it a couple hours ago. I don't have logic so someone else has to make that version. I hope it will be ready in July!



I think it can take a while before its finished. But i'm curious to see what they will do with it!
As long as the room size is somewhat the same it can work. So i tend to use Cineperc and True strike for now. But i guess Hollywood Perc would sound great too.

Cineperc and True strike are going to be expansions for Project Colossal too.

Cheers!

R
That's awesome! July would be amazing. Cheers.
 
Hm... sounds good but I can't get it to work. The connection "looks" ok but no sound. Kontakts in VEPro stay purged. And I can't disconnect without freezing VEPro.
AU3 multi out (25xStereo) and 3 Auxes in Logic with the VEPro input 3-4, 5-6, 7-8.
And I just got the message in Logic "An Audio Unit plugin has reported a problem that causes system instability. Quit Logic and restart". VEPro was the only AU in that song.
I'm not sure the issue but I will say that I'm not using auxes for my audio routing in Logic.

Here's my flow for woodwinds for example:

In VEP:

- Duplicate the CSW instances in VEPro and rename them CSW 1, CSW 2 and CSW 3
- Delete all the channels above port 5 in CSW 1
- Delete all the channels below port 6 and above port 10 in CSW 2 and renumber the ports in that instance to 1-5
- Delete all the channels below port 10 in CSW 3 and renumber to ports 1-3.

In Logic:

- create multi-out, multi-timbral AU3 instance of VEPro server with 10 midi tracks (2 per port) and connect it to CSW 1 instance.
- Change midi channel 3 and 4 to Port 2, channels 1 and 2, change midi channels 6 and 7 to port 3 channels 1 and 2 and so on for each port.
- Change the outputs in the VEPro instance to incremental outputs starting at 1/2, 3/4 etc.
- create new multi-out, mult-timbral AU3 instance of VEPro server with 10 midi tracks and connect it CSW 2 in VEPro. Repeat above process.

All the audio is routed correctly to my multi-timbral outs within VEPro server and flows straight to my mix bus in Logic.

I'm not using Rico's workflow for reverb routing and premixes etc (with maybe is where the auxes are coming in for you?) as I'd rather control my reverb within logic and I found the whole connecting to a reverb "instance" in VEPro and creating auxes to route the verb back to logic a bit too fiddly and unnecessary for me. So I'm using a similar 3-verb setup with his presets but using them natively as sends within Logic to each subgroup.
 
I'm not sure the issue but I will say that I'm not using auxes for my audio routing in Logic.

Here's my flow for woodwinds for example:

In VEP:

- Duplicate the CSW instances in VEPro and rename them CSW 1, CSW 2 and CSW 3
- Delete all the channels above port 5 in CSW 1
- Delete all the channels below port 6 and above port 10 in CSW 2 and renumber the ports in that instance to 1-5
- Delete all the channels below port 10 in CSW 3 and renumber to ports 1-3.

In Logic:

- create multi-out, multi-timbral AU3 instance of VEPro server with 10 midi tracks (2 per port) and connect it to CSW 1 instance.
- Change midi channel 3 and 4 to Port 2, channels 1 and 2, change midi channels 6 and 7 to port 3 channels 1 and 2 and so on for each port.
- Change the outputs in the VEPro instance to incremental outputs starting at 1/2, 3/4 etc.
- create new multi-out, mult-timbral AU3 instance of VEPro server with 10 midi tracks and connect it CSW 2 in VEPro. Repeat above process.

All the audio is routed correctly to my multi-timbral outs within VEPro server and flows straight to my mix bus in Logic.

I'm not using Rico's workflow for reverb routing and premixes etc (with maybe is where the auxes are coming in for you?) as I'd rather control my reverb within logic and I found the whole connecting to a reverb "instance" in VEPro and creating auxes to route the verb back to logic a bit too fiddly and unnecessary for me. So I'm using a similar 3-verb setup with his presets but using them natively as sends within Logic to each subgroup.
Thanks for the detailed explanation! Hope it helps some users here! Is 5 ports the max in AU?
Also agree: the reverb setup in vienna is a bit hard to set up. I would prefer to do it in a daw but to get the same sound out of vienna i needed to do that. But i do recommend recreating that chain in your DAW, like you did!

Cheers!
 
Thanks for the detailled infos!

The problem here is that the VEPro AU3 plugin simply doesn't work at all. Even in the most basic setting (one instrument in Logic and one instrument in one instance of VEPro, same machine). It visually connects but doesn't play. No note input in VEPro. If I click on deconnect it freezes VEPro until I remove the AU3 plugin from Logic.

No problem at all with the regular VEPro AU plugin. That works immediately!

If it runs elswhere it must be a problem with my configuration.
I reinstalled VEPro7 (7.0.1056 May 20 2020)
Logic 10.6.2 (also tried 10.6.1 and 10.4.8)
Catalina 10.15.7
 
Your template sounds good, Rico. Congratulations!
I am wondering if you addressed the high hiss issue that CSS has.
It's not a problem depending on the orchestration and EQ, but in some cases, it's blatant.
 
Your template sounds good, Rico. Congratulations!
I am wondering if you addressed the high hiss issue that CSS has.
It's not a problem depending on the orchestration and EQ, but in some cases, it's blatant.

Thanks man!
As you say: it depends on the orchestration if its audible or not. I did not use a noise filter or anything like that. I did cut around 3k alot but your hiss is probably more in the high trebles. I did cut there for the Exploring the Valleys track. Its not *gone* but for a track like that way less distracting. Especially with those lower dynamics. So, really depends on the track I guess.

Best

R
 
Thanks for the detailled infos!

The problem here is that the VEPro AU3 plugin simply doesn't work at all. Even in the most basic setting (one instrument in Logic and one instrument in one instance of VEPro, same machine). It visually connects but doesn't play. No note input in VEPro. If I click on deconnect it freezes VEPro until I remove the AU3 plugin from Logic.

No problem at all with the regular VEPro AU plugin. That works immediately!

If it runs elswhere it must be a problem with my configuration.
I reinstalled VEPro7 (7.0.1056 May 20 2020)
Logic 10.6.2 (also tried 10.6.1 and 10.4.8)
Catalina 10.15.7
Hmm, thats very strange and frustrating. sorry I can't be of more help!
 
Hi Saxer, in fact it is a different story for logic users as the AU 3 doesn´t seem to work reliably for everybody. I tried Rico`Setup with AU 3 and it worked. But I don´t want to use AU3 until I know that it will be rock solid. So I changed the Channel setting and the number of Instruments so, that I can use it with AU without touching the EQ and Room Settings, that Rico provided. And as prodigalson almost mentioned: you can substitute or better reconstruct the Fullorchestra-Reverb-Send-Instance and the Mastering-Instance within Logic itself. Rico has chosen this approach to guarantee every User the same overall Mix. But it is "unnecessarily complicated" since it is easy to handle this within logic.
 
Yepp, I thought about making that that too. At the moment I have to get some things done so there isn't enough time for me to modify the template. Especially as there is a Logic version of this template in the making anyway.
 
Yepp, I thought about making that that too. At the moment I have to get some things done so there isn't enough time for me to modify the template. Especially as there is a Logic version of this template in the making anyway.
I PM-ed you
 
I also had no trouble using the VEP template as-is with Logic's AU3 plugin. Since the AU3 plugin will only allow the use of 8 ports (for now), the CSW VEP MIDI routings have to be changed slightly.
I'm still using Mojave , thus stuck on 10.5.1.

Eager to use the Logic template when it is ready, since I much prefer working in one application.
 
I also had no trouble using the VEP template as-is with Logic's AU3 plugin. Since the AU3 plugin will only allow the use of 8 ports (for now), the CSW VEP MIDI routings have to be changed slightly.
I'm still using Mojave , thus stuck on 10.5.1.

Eager to use the Logic template when it is ready, since I much prefer working in one application.
Sorry to hear! There are some mentioned workarounds. But you get access to logic versions anyway
 
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