Plugin Auto-Analyzing Harmonic Functions Showing Roman Numerals & Figured Bass plus Score Notation

sprout

New Member
I'm looking for a DAW plugin that can auto-analyze MIDI and perhaps audio then display the harmonic analysis in figured bass roman numerals. It should also display score notation.

I'd like to avoid the messy process of importing to a proper notation program like Sibelius. I know that my Logic Pro X can display score notation rather well but not figured bass to my knowledge.

I've seen plugins can communicate with each other to display a unified view. I would imagine the plugin would have to be placed on every track with MIDI. This can be done to display a unified score. In my wish list:

-Users can format the score notation:
-name the staves
-group staves together for various instrument arrangements
-add notation, comments
-Users can quantize notes for display purposes because MIDI rarely lines up perfectly unless its also quantized.
-Users can save to a file.

Essentially, I'm looking for a music notation program that functions better with DAWs.
I hope the people building the next generation music notation programs read this.

I'm tempted to write this myself but I left programming to compose music. I've never coded a plugin.
 
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pmcrockett

Senior Member
I think no one's replied because nothing like this exists. AFAIK, a MIDI plug-in (we're talking VST, right?) wouldn't be able to see MIDI data on a track until that data was passed in real-time into the plugin, which would make updating the plug-in's knowledge of the notes difficult since you'd have to play a passage back before the plug-in could see it -- or alternately, the MIDI notes would have to be written entirely within the plug-in and output to the DAW's MIDI track by the plug-in during playback. Both of these seem inconvenient to me.

Have you checked out Dorico? I think it does some of the things you're interested in.

EDIT: ARA-compatible VSTs might be able to sync MIDI offline -- I'm not sure if ARA lets VSTs randomly access MIDI or if it's only audio data.
 
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OP
sprout

sprout

New Member
Thanks pmcrockett,

I downloaded the Dorico feature list pdf. Searched for "figured", "roman", "analysis", "plugin". Found nothing. They have a basic LUA scripting API.

I'm glad they're finished the application though. Looks interesting as a Notation app. I'd been reading some of their notes during the development process.

I'll look into ARA. Doesn't look like Logic Pro X supports it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARA_Audio_Random_Access
 
OP
sprout

sprout

New Member
a MIDI plug-in (we're talking VST, right?) wouldn't be able to see MIDI data on a track until that data was passed in real-time into the plugin, which would make updating the plug-in's knowledge of the notes difficult since you'd have to play a passage back before the plug-in could see it
yes, the Melodyne plugin works by storing the playback, updating its own files. I would imagine it also captures recorded performance or notes inputed via mouse, no? I think that's an acceptable way to keep the plugins internal files up-to-date.
 

Paul T McGraw

Senior Member
There is nothing on the market that exactly matches your wish list.

Sibelius can do all of the things on your list, but it is not a DAW, it is Notation software. Using the optional NotePerformer soundset Sibelius playback is actually very good, and will certainly be sufficient for analysis purposes. However playback in Sibelius can not compete with an experienced DAW artist using samples. Finale is a Notation program also rich in analysis tools. I do not use Finale so not sure of the details.

Quantize is not really an issue with Sibelius or Finale as playback follows the written score. I frequently use roman numeral analysis within Sibelius as well as Chord Analysis using modern chord symbols. I do not use figured bass, but I believe Sibelius and Finale have that ability as well.

Overture 5 is a new Notation program that offers many DAW like features, but not sure about the analysis features. Dorico is a new Notation program that may eventually offer the features you want. It is hard to tell exactly what Dorico will eventually encompass because it is presently an attractive program with very limited features.
 
OP
sprout

sprout

New Member
Have you checked out Dorico?
Had discussed this with them in June, 2016 on their forum ( see link). They are probably two years away from Music Analysis, at best, or powerful enough LUA scripting to enable proper third-party programming of it.

https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=246&p=545623#p545623

ARA-compatible VSTs might be able to sync MIDI offline -- I'm not sure if ARA lets VSTs randomly access MIDI or if it's only audio data.
I hope Apple will implement this in Logic Pro X ! They would be crazy not to be in talks with Celemony.
 

ZeroZero

Senior Member
I use Cubase. Does Logic have a score editor? If so your better off there. I hope Dorico achieves usch things, but presently I don't even think it can write a chord symbol. It's just finding it's feet as an engraver. Cubase has a surprisingly powerful score editor.
Z
 

pmcrockett

Senior Member
Are you looking for a system that auto-analyzes the music and provides figured bass for it, or are you looking to write in the figurations yourself? If the latter, Logic can do text events in the score editor that I assume (since I'm not a Logic user) could be used pretty easily to write figured bass.
 
OP
sprout

sprout

New Member
Are you looking for a system that auto-analyzes the music and provides figured bass for it, or are you looking to write in the figurations yourself?
My initial post was unclear, poorly worded. I'm looking for auto-analysis of Harmonic functions displayed in figured bass roman numerals.

I edited the original with better wording.

Apologies.
 
OP
sprout

sprout

New Member
I have to test the app called Mapping Tonal Harmony Pro. I bought it today but haven't touched it yet. It's only $14.00 US on Mac OS X App store.

Seems to auto-analyze audio and MIDI. No sure how easy it is to use on a huge project. May not be designed for use in DAWs, will keep everyone posted.
http://mdecks.com/mapharmony.phtml