Performance Samples Con Moto - Violins A

DarkestShadow

Senior Member
The examples sound great to my ears. Somewhere in the back of my brain, though, there's a part of me that wonders if it's weird for a violin section to do a bow change on every note.
I have that too when I play some things hehe... but mostly it works for me and when I really don't like the defined transition it should work to pull down the cc1 or cc11 data very quickly exactly at the transition to make it more subtle.
 
What do you think is easier and faster to create? Spiccato, staccato, marcato articulation or real legato? I think that 80% of the resources will be spent only on a good, well-honed true legato articulation.
That's why Con Moto is so expensive. This is not a spitfire studio series for schoolchildren. And he has no worthy competitors yet.
 
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DarkestShadow

Senior Member
What do you think is easier and faster to create? Spiccato, staccato, marcato articulation or real legato? I think that 80% of the resources will be spent only on a good, well-honed true legato articulation.
That's why Con Moto is so expensive. This is not a spitfire studio series for schoolchildren. And he has no worthy competitors yet.
Yea right...
It's the depth of sampling and incredibly meticulous scripting.
It's beyond everything else. The sustains are longer and have interest and movement to them rather than the same fragment looping every 2 seconds (happens a damn lot).
Also, based on my ears and tests there is no stretching of samples. Every single semi tone is a new sample, whereas in other libraries it's common to record every second semi-tone and stretch the rest.
Also, all 3 dynamic layers seem to have their own legato transitions - whereas a bunch of other libraries only have one or 2 for the entire dynamic range, resulting in the usual disconnected and bumpy legato that causes cancer when doing lyrical string writing.
That's also why they are between 2 - 3 GB in size with 4 mic positions (so, around 700 MB per mic position I guess) whereas usually it seems to be around 200 - 400 MB for 1 mic with other strings legatos I think.
 

jaketanner

Senior Member
I’m going to be picking up violins a tonight, but one thing still bugs me about the series. It’s all under one name, but it seems that each instrument is individual from the next. Meaning that the cellos have an attack built in and the violins dont. Then Vin A is “better” than Vin B and so on. Like there’s no consistent “section”. It’s not a real complaint more than an observation. Are we buying individual sections or will it be a while once all is said and done?
 

Vik

Scandi Member
I’m going to be picking up violins a tonight, but one thing still bugs me about the series. It’s all under one name, but it seems that each instrument is individual from the next. Meaning that the cellos have an attack built in and the violins dont. Then Vin A is “better” than Vin B and so on.
They probably have decided to make each of the instruments as good as they are capable of, and personally, I like the idea of Vln A, vln B etc. Maybe they'll come up with Violin C and D also, based on the same concept, but with different qualities.

I agree, btw, that the price of the Violin A is high. At the same time, as one of many who has bought into several string libraries, I would have preferred to buy into one 'concept' when I started (again) to buy sample libraries some years ago. The end price for a mocked up violin track today is also quite high - because many of us have bought 5 (or 50) libraries. Knowing how expressive and playable the legatos are in the Con Moto series, this could possibly mean less need to buy into many other libraries to get an as good result. As an example - if Mural had been as good as SSS later turned out to become, or how good SCS is, I probably would never have bought Mural. Likewise, if I had bought Berlin Strings first, I probably wouldn't have bought SSS, and definitely not Mural (even if my initial response to Berlin Strings was somehow disappointing, because the initial impression of the samples was they they weren't as 'in your face' as the Mural samples). So - for someone who really is into the con moto concept, maybe the higher price, lack of other articulations and and the Vln A vs Vln B thing isn't seen as a major limitation. In general, I'm personally much more interested a library which does what it is supposed to do really well – compared with libraries that makes you keep wanting to invest in new libraries.
 

jaketanner

Senior Member
They probably have decided to make each of the instruments as good as they are capable of, and personally, I like the idea of Vln A, vln B etc. Maybe they'll come up with Violin C and D also, based on the same concept, but with different qualities.

I agree, btw, that the price of the Violin A is high. At the same time, as one of many who has bought into several string libraries, I would have preferred to buy into one 'concept' when I started (again) to buy sample libraries some years ago. The end price for a mocked up violin track today is also quite high - because many of us have bought 5 (or 50) libraries. Knowing how expressive and playable the legatos are in the Con Moto series, this could possibly mean less need to buy into many other libraries to get an as good result. As an example - if Mural had been as good as SSS later turned out to become, or how good SCS is, I probably would never have bought Mural. Likewise, if I had bought Berlin Strings first, I probably wouldn't have bought SSS, and definitely not Mural (even if my initial response to Berlin Strings was somehow disappointing, because the initial impression of the samples was they they weren't as 'in your face' as the Mural samples). So - for someone who really is into the con moto concept, maybe the higher price, lack of other articulations and and the Vln A vs Vln B thing isn't seen as a major limitation. In general, I'm personally much more interested a library which does what it is supposed to do really well – compared with libraries that makes you keep wanting to invest in new libraries.
I do have many libraries...and if Con Moto were a complete library with multiple articulations, yes..This would be my go to library, and I'd most likely going to get the Nashville chamber when it comes out...if it's not a ridiculous price that is.. I have SCS already.

And while not a complaint, just disappointed that as good as the Con Moto is, it's still only legato and sustains. I have Fluid Shorts I, and maybe with the two I can do a completed piece...but frustrating that Con Moto is stuck with legato. I understand that you can't have "with motion" on shorts or even marcatos...so I do understand the concept I guess...:)

I love the sound of the strings even more than the playability...it's a unique sound that no other library has...CSS comes close, and I layer them together...so CSS can easily fill in the violas and basses for now.
 

jaketanner

Senior Member
I looked at the manual on their site, and found nothing explaining this. The only one I played with and kinda got what it does, is the expand the dynamic range...but not sure the proper use of any of these, and why they were included and also what it does to the sound if used...obviously wasn't intended to be used...so I am guess this is just something to mess with IF you needed more control?
 

Attachments

Land of Missing Parts

Grumpy Monkey
I looked at the manual on their site, and found nothing explaining this. The only one I played with and kinda got what it does, is the expand the dynamic range...but not sure the proper use of any of these, and why they were included and also what it does to the sound if used...obviously wasn't intended to be used...so I am guess this is just something to mess with IF you needed more control?
Jasper explained those in this post.

"I wanted to add some features for those who are trying to balance their patches to a template or reference recording. These features allow you to compress the dynamic range, expand the dynamic range, compress the high register (like Oceania’s flatten dynamics button), and compress the low register. There's also a makeup gain knob to turn volume up and down."

And I've actually been asking for these controls to be added to Con Moto Violins B and Cellos. Although yesterday I made a code in Logic's Scripter that will essentially do what I need.
 

jaketanner

Senior Member
Jasper explained those in this post.

"I wanted to add some features for those who are trying to balance their patches to a template or reference recording. These features allow you to compress the dynamic range, expand the dynamic range, compress the high register (like Oceania’s flatten dynamics button), and compress the low register. There's also a makeup gain knob to turn volume up and down."

And I've actually been asking for these controls to be added to Con Moto Violins B and Cellos. Although yesterday I made a code in Logic's Scripter that will essentially do what I need.
Thanks...missed that post. But not sure what those features add that I couldn't do with volume...and why would I want to compress dynamics on strings when all we want are MORE dynamics.. LOL Maybe not seeing the applications as explained. But either way, I most likely will only use the expand dynamics, as this gives you a niente with the mod wheel...although not realistic, it can add to a nice crescendo effect.
 

Land of Missing Parts

Grumpy Monkey
Thanks...missed that post. But not sure what those features add that I couldn't do with volume...and why would I want to compress dynamics on strings when all we want are MORE dynamics.. LOL Maybe not seeing the applications as explained. But either way, I most likely will only use the expand dynamics, as this gives you a niente with the mod wheel...although not realistic, it can add to a nice crescendo effect.
You could use it to match Con Moto with CSS. If you match them both at the top volume, what you'll notice is that CSS will get quieter as your mod wheel gets close to its lowest point. If you turn the Con Moto volume down to match, then its volume at the top won't match anymore. That's what I mean by volume range.

Since CSS has a greater range, you would need to expand Con Moto's range to match it if. Of course, some folks might suggest riding the volume knob, since it essentially could do the same thing. But that's just more work and less precise, and can interfere with mixing later on. In my opinion, setting up levels properly is a far better way.

And for Con Moto, volume matching is a greater consideration because it is only one articulation. And so it is virtually a given that you'll need to pair it with other libraries.
 

jaketanner

Senior Member
You could use it to match Con Moto with CSS. If you match them both at the top volume, what you'll notice is that CSS will get quieter as your mod wheel gets close to its lowest point. If you turn the Con Moto volume down to match, then its volume at the top won't match anymore. That's what I mean by volume range.

Since CSS has a greater range, you would need to expand Con Moto's range to match it if. Of course, some folks might suggest riding the volume knob, since it essentially could do the same thing. But that's just more work and less precise, and can interfere with mixing later on. In my opinion, setting up levels properly is a far better way.

And for Con Moto, volume matching is a greater consideration because it is only one articulation. And so it is virtually a given that you'll need to pair it with other libraries.
Ah, ok. Got it...makes sense.
 

Patrick9152

France
I everyone,
I'm taking advantage of this discussion to try to clarify something that bothers me.
I took advantage of the promotions of the month of November to buy all the products of PS, except the choirs.
I am very satisfied... But I am disappointed by the "Fluid Shorts II", apart from crackling noises who don't bother me, I do not see what they have more compared to other libraries, I find that the sound is bad or not better than others, or so I do not use it, I had to miss something? .... If someone one can explain to me, it could help me understand.
 
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staypuft

Member
I everyone,
I'm taking advantage of this discussion to try to clarify something that bothers me.
I took advantage of the promotions of the month of November to buy all the products of PS, except the choirs.
I am very satisfied... But I am disappointed by the "Fluid Shorts II", apart from crackling noises who don't bother me, I do not see what they have more compared to other libraries, I find that the sound is bad or not better than others, or so I do not use it, I had to miss something? .... If someone one can explain to me, it could help me understand.
I also pulled the trigger on Fluid Shorts and yes there are ´´crackling noises`` but I found them very easy to fix with a quick RX7 pass. I suppose it wouln´t take much time or effort to provide a clean sample set. Did you contact Jasper about it? if not i´ll shoot him a msg
 

Land of Missing Parts

Grumpy Monkey
I also pulled the trigger on Fluid Shorts and yes there are ´´crackling noises`` but I found them very easy to fix with a quick RX7 pass. I suppose it wouln´t take much time or effort to provide a clean sample set. Did you contact Jasper about it? if not i´ll shoot him a msg
Cool. If it gets fixed, let us know. :)
 

Jdiggity1

Not Jono, or Bono
Moderator
I´m just getting into Performance Samples and switched the violins of a mockup I´m working on with Con Moto A. I think it worked pretty well, the bow changes don´t bother me at all....SSS and LASS first chair as well. CC and EQ to taste.
Just for the record, as we've come to expect now, Staypuft's 'demo' here is just another rip from a soundtrack:

Apologies if any of his posts have influenced anybody's decisions in any way.
 
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Here some audio examples I did. (Links are not visible via handy!) Just a few minutes after installing the library. No editing or retakes, except removing a few bad notes and silly dynamics I played in. Of course it can sound even better with actual proper programming and processing. My examples are naked, except some mic mixing in the last 2, which I talk about below.

This one I think was just the decca mic as it loads out of the box.


And here another less nonsensical improv with a custom mic mix I made. Attached an image with my mix here: (click to make big)
View attachment 25064


Aaaand here I tried how it sounds like to play repeated notes. It sounds surprisingly good!! I don't think there is any rebowing scripting under the hood but it seems like the sustains were recorded in a way that makes them very suitable for defined and expressive re-triggering.

I'm very impressed and happy with this library!!!!!!! (Those are JUST enough !!'s haha)
Woah!

Reckon it could play this at 2:14???!!

 

prodigalson

Senior Member
Just for the record, as we've come to expect now, Staypuft's 'demo' here is just another rip from a soundtrack:

Apologies if any of his posts have influenced anybody's decisions in any way.
Lol it’s almost like he didn’t realize this was a forum of people who generally REALLY like film music.
 

DarkestShadow

Senior Member
Woah!

Reckon it could play this at 2:14???!!

I don't hope so because that line sounds pretty awful to me haha. But doesn't sound like anything challenging for any library.
Also, can Violins A do the repetitions like Violins B can in that demo?
Not sure which demo of Violins B you mean... both libraries don't have sampled repetitions but Violins A sounds pretty great when repeating notes because of the way they sampled the sustains, as can be heard in the last example. Violins B doesn't do this that well, just based on my memory.