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PA going to Subscription too

jaketanner

Senior Member
Then wouldn’t that make this entire thing a non issue for mixers like you?
Yes, it's a non-issue, only because I already have everything...HOWEVER, PA is a great company for emulations, and they also provide emulations not found elsewhere. Specifically the Focusrite Console. Emulations of the 76 and Shadow Hills are among other developers that I have, so not thirsty for those really...nice to have, but not a must. Being a mixer, I always try and create a sound that no one else has...not just about getting balances or proper EQ...it's also about getting a true analog tone ITB...for me at least, since that's what I started with...When I was interning at the hit Factory, NY, Pro Tools was just in it's infancy in terms of large scale projects, and mostly out of reach for consumers since they only worked with their own interfaces...until the Mbox came out...but I digress. So yes, I don't really need the plugins, but when one comes out that's unique to the game, I like to own it. My deal is roughly around $200, maybe slightly less for the FC, so I have some time to think about it.
 

jaketanner

Senior Member
For those who want a small loophole. I received a code for the FC at 20% off...so I experimented with the dynamic discount...and added 5 more of the cheapest plugins they have, and together with my $25 monthly voucher, I get the FC for less than $145. Still high, but I also get 5 other plugins that I may or may not use.. LOL Just in case some of you are wanting to mess with the numbers a bit.
 

sostenuto

Big NKS Fan !
Leaning toward official Focusrite 'Refurb' Clarett 2Pre USB @ $320.
console Focusrite SC is then free ..... if I'm reading Focusrite site correctly .... :emoji_eyeglasses:
 

jaketanner

Senior Member
Leaning toward official Focusrite 'Refurb' Clarett 2Pre USB @ $320. console Focusrite SC is then free ..... if I'm reading Focusrite site correctly .... :emoji_eyeglasses:
yes free, but make sure that you are able to register the clarets in your own account. but unless you need the interface, it's cheaper to do a dynamic discount.
 

SoNowWhat?

realised I can type here
Hmm.. do the UAD plugins work if you don't have the hardware? No. So even if you own all of their plug-ins and your hardware unit stops working you have to buy a new one in order to use the plug-ins that you own... right?

I'm open to all models because then you have options, if you like subscriptions then subscribe, if you'd rather own proprietary hardware required to use your plug-ins, that's great; then do that, if you like to have a mix of specific plug-ins from various vendors then just buy the ones you want, and if the plug-ins that come packaged with your DAW are good enough for you then even better.

Choice is what makes all of these models valuable, I for one am glad that we have numerous choices and happily I take advantage of several of them.

I got the PA subscription because with my loyalty discount it was ~$12.50/mo for as long as I want to stay subscribed. That's three less coffees a month, or one less movie, or one less Uber ride when I could take the bus, or... well I think you get the picture... :sneaky: ;) :cool:
And you are also right my friend. If somebody wants to avail themselves of this offer then I am very happy for them. And I am not having a go at PA for changing their model. They are supporting those that have purchased up to this point (which is me) so I am happy. Is there still the option to buy single plugins outright? If so then this is the best of both worlds. As for pricing on those plugins well, if I want a thing and I can afford to buy at the asking price and I think it represents value to me at that price then happy days.
 

ironbut

Active Member
I have a number of their plugins but truth be told, I only use a couple regularly.
The last year or so, I've only bought a couple new non-instrument plugins (can't resist reverbs though).
Thinking I might just "unsubscribe" to their newsletters so I'm not tempted!
 

chocobitz825

Senior Member
Yes, the pricing for perpetual licenses are now officially silly. 349 for all the new plugins and the sub for 179?

It would make sense to reduce the prices so that you perpetual licenses would be the equivalent of say renting them for, say, 3 years. Who is going to buy perpetual now when the subscription is so much less, and the resell value of any existing plugins are now probably much less now.

I´m afraid I´d have to opt out for a while to see where all this is going. I was going to buy the AMPEG today, but went with Softube bass amp room for 49 instead (they also have Eden for 99).
UAD's new capital chambers plugin is $349, plus you need their hardware to run it. Their pricing doesn't at all seem out of line with their competition and the type of plugins that they're doing which often seem to involve licensing brands.
 

Mark Schmieder

Senior Member
The biggest problem with subscriptions is that they compound very quickly. Unless a specific vendor is your daily bread and butter, it kind of kills the budget and removes discretion and the ability to be agile in the face of unforeseen events.

I somewhat regret even buying into Slate's subscription as I haven't used any of his products since NOV 2017 (or maybe 2016) when I signed on. I just haven't been doing any mixing or mastering work in that time, except quickie placeholder stuff which I do with iZotope's products in most cases.

This one's a toughie though, as I own most or all of the existing plug-ins, and probably WILL be using the Ampeg stuff if it's better than AmpliTube's version. At $149/year, it's way less than I normally spend with PA, but then it becomes mandatory, which I never like, especially if it gets to where this becomes the model for half a dozen or more vendors whose products I don't use very much.

Anyway, the subscription model is why I don't do Roland Cloud (I tried to buy some of their excellent soft synths, but the money was refunded as they no longer sell them as perpetual licenses), Netflix, Spotify, Adobe Cloud, etc. -- I can't predict when or if I'll next use such stuff, as I primarily focus on gigging, composing, arranging, playing, recording, my day job as a software audio engineer, etc.
 
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chocobitz825

Senior Member
The biggest problem with subscriptions is that they compound very quickly. Unless a specific vendor is your daily bread and butter, it kind of kills the budget and removes discretion and the ability to be agile in the face of unforeseen events.

I somewhat regret even buying into Slate's subscription as I haven't used any of his products since NOV 2017 (or maybe 2016) when I signed on. I just haven't been doing any mixing or mastering work in that time, except quickie placeholder stuff which I do with iZotope's products in most cases.

This one's a toughie though, as I own most or all of the existing plug-ins, and probably WILL be using the Ampeg stuff if it's better than AmpliTube's version. At $149/year, it's way less than I normally spend with PA, but then it becomes mandatory, which I never like, especially if it gets to where this becomes the model for half a dozen or more vendors whose products I don't use very much.
why not just buy the few plugins you use from those developers and skip the subscription? Would that end up costing more than a subscription?
 

Mark Schmieder

Senior Member
Many no longer offer perpetual licenses, as I stated. It's a miracle that I got my Adobe Lightroom license to work on my new iMac, and also when I upgraded to Mojave. I use the product four times a year at most, but the alternatives don't satisfy me (yet), so I do need it. Just not my daily bread and butter. True of MOST service-based payment plans. I probably only watch two movies a year, for instance, and I only use Spotify to practice songs for gigs.
 

chocobitz825

Senior Member
Many no longer offer perpetual licenses, as I stated. It's a miracle that I got my Adobe Lightroom license to work on my new iMac, and also when I upgraded to Mojave. I use the product four times a year at most, but the alternatives don't satisfy me (yet), so I do need it. Just not my daily bread and butter. True of MOST service-based payment plans. I probably only watch two movies a year, for instance, and I only use Spotify to practice songs for gigs.
I would agree that the fields of productivity and design have gradually phased out perpetual licenses, and that is a disagreeable business model that has led me to other alternatives outside of the Microsoft and adobe fields. The plugin market, to my knowledge, has not done that yet and still offers the ability to buy what you want as is the same for digital media. Other than products made explicitly by the platform; you can purchase single songs or movies as you want.

I would say, though, as much as I disagree with the productivity and design apps new subscription model, I have worked in numerous companies that commonly abused perpetual licenses. I worked for one large company that used to clone their single license of Windows and its productivity apps. From what I can tell, subscription models can protect the developers from pirating, but on the user end, for large corporations and professionals, it provides a more transparent financial plan, up to date security fixes and an upgrade path that should give most professional users a different sense of security. These subscriptions are leaving us casual users struggling to find a place, but it's not all just a cash grab. Piracy was a massive problem that could tank any company.
 

chocobitz825

Senior Member
quick note about how the licensing is working for PA with not ilok. I just opened up some plugins and it seems like after authorizing the plugin, it keeps a "leasing days left" counter on the app for the span of your lease. so if you paid for a year it will count 365 days, and i imagine if monthly it would count until the next month. So you would need to at least be connected to the internet once a month to verify your license on a monthly plan.
 

Mark Schmieder

Senior Member
Adobe is the most extreme example, as they hold your data captive. I don't think that would be possible with plug-in developers as they have no control over our DAW's. It isn't the cost that bothers me, as often it ends up cheaper.

It's just that it compounds too quickly if you are dealing with over sixty vendors (many for niche products) and they all follow that model at the same pricing scheme. Most of us can't predict our needs, or the regularity of them, that far out. Businesses usually can.

At $149, I will probably opt in, but reluctantly. I already owned all of Slate's stuff before I subscribed, and am hard pressed to think what has been added -- and not later rescinded -- since that time. I just can't predict how much I'll use the stuff, as I didn't expect I'd go this long without doing major mixing and mastering sessions. So subscriptions are quite a gamble for the end user, which is why I won't do Roland's as I rarely use synths anymore and would have preferred perpetual licenses. Of course, other factors can render those unusable even if the vendor doesn't throw in a time bomb or otherwise disable them.

There are other vendors that I seriously doubt I would ever consider subscribing to, as I use so little of what I own (e.g. Softube -- my favourite is probably their comprehensive Pultec channel strip). I'm really surprised that vendors such as Kush do subscriptions, as they have so few products. I bought the ones I like (including the new one this week). I really don't know how many PA plugs will find regular use as it's such a fast-changing field. I definitely find the Maag EQ's indispensable, and the Elysia stuff as well. Not sure the other stuff is as static in my regular workflow vs. getting challenged by newcomers.
 

wst3

my office these days
Moderator
Yes, the pricing for perpetual licenses are now officially silly. 349 for all the new plugins and the sub for 179?
Not picking on anyone in particular, but I keep reading that the plugin prices are too high. I'm not sure any of us is qualified to state that as fact. We can say the price is higher than we'd like to pay, but we can't make a blanket statement that it is too high.

The price of any product can be set in many ways - what the market will bear, cost plus, or somewhere in between.

We do not know how many man hours went into the development.

We do not know if they has to pay any license fees

We do not know how many copies they sell.

All of these are factors, and I would imagine it could be difficult to recoup costs even at $350 a pop. Not to mention you won't even be allowed to drool on the hardware for $350.

The new PA plan may succeed, it may fall flat on its face. That doesn't change the fact that they sell some really great plugins.

And we do maintain the right to vote with our wallets.

(For the record I will not be subscribing, I have a LOT of their plugins, and I'm having a difficult time imagining they will be developing that many more that will separate me from my money.)
 

KMA

member
I won't be participating in a subscription model that doesn't include an option to own. Besides, I already own some of the plugins I would like to use from PA.

If they discontinue their sales, then I'm happy walking away. Lots of other products out there.
 
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Mark Schmieder

Senior Member
Due to the clarification sent out today, I will be subscribing after all.

I first used my $75 voucher to erase the $49 upgrade cost of DSM V3, as that's a perpetual license.

Now that I know we won't lose our perpetual licenses by going subscription, it makes sense to sign up when there are five new plug-ins that would cost too much even with vouchers, and at least two of which I expect to be using regularly (such as the Ampeg).
 

NYC Composer

Senior Member
Output has an interesting subscription model they’re presently using for their online sample player Arcade, which is my only subscription. I don’t know whether I’ll keep it going or not, but the idea is twofold:

1. They are constantly adding new sounds.
2. If you cancel, you can continue opening the projects you used it in, and the sounds will play.
 
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