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PA going to Subscription too

chocobitz825

Senior Member
I do find it strange that software emulation of gear that costs thousands of dollars is now in the digital, at a range of a few hundred..but that’s still too much and considered predatory pricing by some.

I look at the tube tech full collection you can get for a few hundred dollars, when the hardware itself is $4000 plus for the compressor alone.

We’re able to make full on functional home studios for a fraction of the cost of an analog based studio. Companies not pricing low enough to please hobbyists just doesn’t seem like a major problem to me in this field of business.


As for subscriptions giving people more than they need, some might think less is more and your stock plugins are enough. Others might like to color with different plugins and experiment. Having more plugins doesn’t make you better at using them and you have to learn to mix well, but if you’re of the mindset of treating mixing as a creative process rather than an obligatory process, more plugins can inspire some people.

I get it though, I’m not gonna change anyone’s mind here. Hopefully everyone still finds th plugins they want and need at a price point that is reasonable.
 

Quasar

Senior Member
The main issue I feel they're so overpriced, is that they have to pay licensing fees for the "official" sanction of the hardware. And that's all cool too...I'd rather have an emulation be as close to the original...but not priced as such, when there are many other options that are also very good.
Good points. Since the whole plugin universe has expanded so explosively (by some order of magnitude certainly) over the past few years, it's only natural that various niche markets develop for various use-case scenarios, and it's inevitable that we see a vast array of marketing strategies and tactics. Depending on whether one is rich or poor, pro or hobbyist, needs name-brand imprimaturs for PR or not, etc., what may be a sensible purchase for one may be irrational for another. There is no absolute right vs. wrong here...

...But I believe, practically speaking, that the proverbial cat is out of the bag insofar as it becomes ever more generally true (and known) that all of the essential ways in which one might wish to manipulate audio: isolate bands, adjust specific frequencies, modulate tonal/harmonic/amplitude characteristics, statically or dynamically etc., this can all be accomplished without spending a lot of money. There are always other options, even if in some cases an alternative doesn't have your favorite GUI or adds an extra workflow step or whatever. IOW the saturation market is saturated, and there is no longer any such thing as a "must have" except as a matter of preference for how one chooses to achieve a given end.

I further believe that this glut of usable options is a huge part of the reason why audio effects companies are so often frantically resorting to "creative" marketing tactics to distinguish themselves in the crowd. But yeah, it's all cool. Consumers who have more money than sense may well be the seeders, the driving economic force behind new innovation and development.
 

JEPA

Senior Member
PA is playing with the illusion that everybody wants to own everything. I am happy with the few and specific plugins I need, I don't want to own unnecessary garbage.. It's like a guitar player owning all pedals.. for what? Each artist builds his own sound with specific gear, that's it! There are specific plugins from PA I like and I want to own, but everything? not for me
 

chocobitz825

Senior Member
PA is playing with the illusion that everybody wants to own everything. I am happy with the few and specific plugins I need, I don't want to own unnecessary garbage.. It's like a guitar player owning all pedals.. for what? Each artist builds his own sound with specific gear, that's it! There are specific plugins from PA I like and I want to own, but everything? not for me
100 plugins for a hobbyist may seem a bit much, but many pro studios have up to 100 various effects/preamps/compressors easily. When working out of sony studio here in Japan, I believe they have easily up to 75, maybe a hundred various analog gear. Having that much means nothing if you dont know how to use them or why you'd use certain ones for certain use cases, but offering this variety of plugins for certain professionals does make sense.

Its also an assumption to say that all musicians use only a few effects or gear and that's it. It depends on what type of creator you are. Some people have tons of gear. I mean, isn't Junkie XL basically a gearhead too? How many guitars does the average pro guitarist own? More than a hobbyist no doubt, and for reasons most people with limited budget wouldn't understand.
 

JEPA

Senior Member
100 plugins for a hobbyist may seem a bit much, but many pro studios have up to 100 various effects/preamps/compressors easily. When working out of sony studio here in Japan, I believe they have easily up to 75, maybe a hundred various analog gear. Having that much means nothing if you dont know how to use them or why you'd use certain ones for certain use cases, but offering this variety of plugins for certain professionals does make sense.

Its also an assumption to say that all musicians use only a few effects or gear and that's it. It depends on what type of creator you are. Some people have tons of gear. I mean, isn't Junkie XL basically a gearhead too?
I own tons of plugins but I'm not interested in every plugin from PA, I choose every plugin I have bought carefully oriented to what I plan to do with it. And everybody acts different, I have said "not for ME"

EDIT: and I see the incongruence, I have said the "few" plugins (in context of the gazillion in existence) but I own "tons" (in context of what I am capable to control... It's the time where I have to open my yellow pages to search for a plugin I don't find ;) )
 
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JEPA

Senior Member
for example, I know Output plugins/libraries, I don't want anything from them, although they sound great, but I don't want any from them...
 

chocobitz825

Senior Member
it's like with Waves, I don't want everything from Waves, I want only specifc plugins from them (I think I have all from them I want)
I can relate to this. This particular option has appealed to me because I’ve moved away from waves and I’m phasing most of their stuff out of my workflow. I have a fair amount of UAD plugins as well, but DSP walls sometime cause issue and plugin alliance offers a lot of great option that fill gaps for me. At $25 a month it’s a bit high, but since I got it 50% off, I’m willing to give it a try and see if it has value beyond this year.

For context though, it will cost me $156 to upgrade 15 waves plugins by 2020...given that I own more than 15 waves plugins this cost every couple of years is unappealing to me.
 

SoNowWhat?

realised I can type here
100 plugins for a hobbyist may seem a bit much, but many pro studios have up to 100 various effects/preamps/compressors easily. When working out of sony studio here in Japan, I believe they have easily up to 75, maybe a hundred various analog gear. Having that much means nothing if you dont know how to use them or why you'd use certain ones for certain use cases, but offering this variety of plugins for certain professionals does make sense.

Its also an assumption to say that all musicians use only a few effects or gear and that's it. It depends on what type of creator you are. Some people have tons of gear. I mean, isn't Junkie XL basically a gearhead too? How many guitars does the average pro guitarist own? More than a hobbyist no doubt, and for reasons most people with limited budget wouldn't understand.
The difference I’d note with someone like Junkie or the Sony example is that they own that gear. If they want to continue to use it they’re not paying every month or year for the privilege (servicing aside I guess). I’m with @JEPA and @Quasar on this one, I have the plugins I want from Waves and PA based on what they offer currently. I don’t need anymore and I don’t need to continue to buy more and more stuff. I appreciate that developers need support but at the end of the day so do I and so does my family.
 

JEPA

Senior Member
The difference I’d note with someone like Junkie or the Sony example is that they own that gear.
that's it!
I’m willing to give it a try and see if it has value beyond this year.
and after that year if they had "rent to own" model or "option buy" you could choose if staying subscripted or buying/owning the plugin you need more or the plugins you have seen worked for you. Maybe after that year you see you don't use 80% of what they offer.
 

lp59burst

I'm just a "hobbyist"...
yep. should be rent to own.

i cannot fathom the idea the poeple are for the subcirption model when the tech is there to have rent to own.
you can demo 100 plugins, choose a few and pay to own. subsribe PA, waves, slate, etc. how many eq/compressors do you need?!
subscription model is just a huge Up your ass give us money. which can lead to no more sales and also plugins to cost 10x more just so companies can justify its prices.

say no to subscription models.
Subscription, lease, rental, time-shares... they're all the same thing - you get a service, or the use of something, for an agreed to period of time then, unless you want to pay again (renew), the deals done... so where exactly are you going to draw the line...

No more, Netflix, Spotify, Adobe, Avid, Slate, PA, ComposerCloud, rental cars, all the airlines, all hotels, Air BnB, cruise ships, tickets to the show, apartments, internet connection via ISP, cell phone service, movie theater tickets, studio time, cable TV, public transportation... etc... etc... etc...? :sneaky: ;) :cool:

<Moved by me from deals thread since it's better suited here...>
 
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lp59burst

I'm just a "hobbyist"...
Hmm.. do the UAD plugins work if you don't have the hardware? No. So even if you own all of their plug-ins and your hardware unit stops working you have to buy a new one in order to use the plug-ins that you own... right?

I'm open to all models because then you have options, if you like subscriptions then subscribe, if you'd rather own proprietary hardware required to use your plug-ins, that's great; then do that, if you like to have a mix of specific plug-ins from various vendors then just buy the ones you want, and if the plug-ins that come packaged with your DAW are good enough for you then even better.

Choice is what makes all of these models valuable, I for one am glad that we have numerous choices and happily I take advantage of several of them.

I got the PA subscription because with my loyalty discount it was ~$12.50/mo for as long as I want to stay subscribed. That's three less coffees a month, or one less movie, or one less Uber ride when I could take the bus, or... well I think you get the picture... :sneaky: ;) :cool:
 
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dzilizzi

I know nothing
Subscription, lease, rental, time-shares... they're all the same thing - you get a service, or the use of something, for an agreed to period of time then, unless you want to pay again (renew), the deals done... so where exactly are you going to draw the line...

No more, Netflix, Spotify, Adobe, Avid, Eventide, Slate, ComposerCloud, rental cars, all the airlines, all hotels, Air BnB, cruise ships, tickets to the show, apartments, internet connection via ISP, cell phone service, movie theater tickets, studio time, cable TV, public transportation... etc... etc... etc...? :sneaky: ;) :cool:

<Moved by me from deals thread since it's better suited here...>
Well, some things make sense to rent. Like a car in a place you are visiting but don't plan on coming back to. Or a TV show you probably won't want to rewatch. Or a plugin you use once a year and can bounce an audio of it for later use. Kind of like renting a very expensive mic for a recording session. But I don't wan to pay for a year for something I don't use every day and don't make money from. My husband recently cancelled our Netflix subscription because the movies just weren't being updated enough for him and I hardly watched it.

It really comes down to "is this worth it for you?" Everyone's situation is different. I probably wouldn't buy any PA plugins except I got most for less than $25. They aren't the first things I grab. Now someone else would pay $100 for that same plugin and be very happy because it saves the piece they are working on.

I tend to thing the subscription model makes more sense for businesses. You can deduct the expense, you stay up to date, and you have a lot more to give to a customer. Especially for a studio with different customers coming in. For a hobbyist who still uses a photo editing program from 2006, subscriptions make no sense.
 

lp59burst

I'm just a "hobbyist"...
Well, some things make sense to rent. Like a car in a place you are visiting but don't plan on coming back to. Or a TV show you probably won't want to rewatch. Or a plugin you use once a year and can bounce an audio of it for later use. Kind of like renting a very expensive mic for a recording session. But I don't wan to pay for a year for something I don't use every day and don't make money from. My husband recently cancelled our Netflix subscription because the movies just weren't being updated enough for him and I hardly watched it.

It really comes down to "is this worth it for you?" Everyone's situation is different. I probably wouldn't buy any PA plugins except I got most for less than $25. They aren't the first things I grab. Now someone else would pay $100 for that same plugin and be very happy because it saves the piece they are working on.

I tend to thing the subscription model makes more sense for businesses. You can deduct the expense, you stay up to date, and you have a lot more to give to a customer. Especially for a studio with different customers coming in. For a hobbyist who still uses a photo editing program from 2006, subscriptions make no sense.
I agree completely. Not a good deal for you.

My comment is more towards the opinion that some have that "there's no good use for subscriptions, total waste of money..." which is just not the case.

I'm not saying that's your opinion, I'm just pointing out that subscriptions are all around us every day and that most are just accepted without even taking notice... I was just highlighting a few...
 
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wst3

my office these days
Moderator
If I only had a handful of PA plugins, but knew that I wanted a bunch I'd subscribe, it would be a very cost effective solution.

However, I have all of their plugins that appeal to me, and the cost to add one or two new plugins that are interesting is just not there. I will continue to purchase outright. (I couldn't even come up with a pick-pack when that was a thing.

I have no issue with their pricing, or their subscription plan.

Although I will admit that once they started doing their flash sales I stopped buying at regular prices, with or without vouchers. If there had been something I desperately needed for a project then full price would be an option, but that hasn't happened yet.

I wish them luck!
 

dzilizzi

I know nothing
I agree completely. Not a good deal for you.

My comment is more towards the opinion that some have that "there's no good use for subscriptions, total waste of money..." which is just not the case.

I'm not saying that's your opinion, I'm just stating that subscriptions are all around us every day and that most are just accepted without even taking notice... I was just pointing out a few...
Though truthfully, if I could by Adobe Photoshop, I would. It has some great tools. But I'm not making any money from my photography either, so the exorbitant price to rent everything Adobe has just to use Photoshop once a month kind of annoys me. Subscriptions only are good if they also give you an option to buy the little bit you need.

And I was kind of agreeing with you as well.
 

mixtur

New Member
I can relate to this. This particular option has appealed to me because I’ve moved away from waves and I’m phasing most of their stuff out of my workflow. I have a fair amount of UAD plugins as well, but DSP walls sometime cause issue and plugin alliance offers a lot of great option that fill gaps for me. At $25 a month it’s a bit high, but since I got it 50% off, I’m willing to give it a try and see if it has value beyond this year.

For context though, it will cost me $156 to upgrade 15 waves plugins by 2020...given that I own more than 15 waves plugins this cost every couple of years is unappealing to me.
And what happens when your subscription is over? You won't even be able to open your old sessions so you´re basically a hostage in a way (unless you print all the effects).

My biggest gripe with subscriptions is that no vendor covers it all, so I´ll end up having to have a bunch of them (for samples, synts, DAW, effects etc) and that is going to be very expensive. PA in particular is very geared towards EQ, Compressors and Amps but very few reverbs, no tapes etc. It adds up quickly.
 

mixtur

New Member
I own tons of plugins but I'm not interested in every plugin from PA, I choose every plugin I have bought carefully oriented to what I plan to do with it. And everybody acts different, I have said "not for ME"

EDIT: and I see the incongruence, I have said the "few" plugins (in context of the gazillion in existence) but I own "tons" (in context of what I am capable to control... It's the time where I have to open my yellow pages to search for a plugin I don't find ;) )
Right, and you would otherwise be paying for all those plugins even if you only used 30% of them because there´s no such thing as a free lunch. PA Ultimately did this to make more money, not to save you money.

/J
 

mixtur

New Member
They had rent to own. Not sure how often it was used, but You can’t do rent to own on a full subscription. Giving people full access to everything you make and then letting them cash out 100% sounds like a poor business model. They’d have to go back to previous model of pick 10 plugins to pay off, or they would need to say that a certain percentage of your subscription fee goes toward a buy out.
They could have a subscription where they gave you credits based on how much rent you have paid, and enable you to cash plugin of your choice every now and then, or have you chose 10 or whatever. I think Roland had a subscription like that for a while, although they just recently changed it.
 

mixtur

New Member
I wonder if I should take it, I personally want that new Ampeg sim which already is good for well over 50% of the yearly sub. There are probably a couple more I want to have. I just don't like subscriptions. Last one I bought was the SPL Iron and a week later it was on sale for a lot less (and I bought it with some discount already).
Yes, the pricing for perpetual licenses are now officially silly. 349 for all the new plugins and the sub for 179?

It would make sense to reduce the prices so that you perpetual licenses would be the equivalent of say renting them for, say, 3 years. Who is going to buy perpetual now when the subscription is so much less, and the resell value of any existing plugins are now probably much less now.

I´m afraid I´d have to opt out for a while to see where all this is going. I was going to buy the AMPEG today, but went with Softube bass amp room for 49 instead (they also have Eden for 99).
 
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