Overture 5 - feedback needed from current users

Discussion in 'NOTATION Speak: Sibelius, Finale & Dorico' started by Tacet, Dec 8, 2018.

  1. Massimo

    Massimo Active Member

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    Very nice work Rob... I was familiar with these two pieces from interacting with you at the Overture forum, nevertheless, your composer/orchestrator and MIDI programmer skills are excellent. May I ask what are you using these days instead of Overture 5 (perhaps Dorico)? Kind Regards, Max T.
     
  2. Craig Duke

    Craig Duke Member

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    Exactly. With a click, one can go from a notation view:
    upload_2018-12-10_8-11-18.png

    ... to this view, and edit any and all CC data, velocity, etc.
    upload_2018-12-10_8-11-38.png

    Another important feature is the control of keyswitching (I use UACC for Spitfire) via expression and articulation symbols on the staff. I'll post some pictures on that later.
     
  3. Massimo

    Massimo Active Member

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    I wonder if there is a kind soul that is willing to post some general operation videos on how to go about working with Overture... The official video tutorials are going to appear sometimes in 2019 but there is no release date yet and I sense that a lot of people are put off by Overture because they may think it is to daunting to learn, I am one of those people.
     
  4. Craig Duke

    Craig Duke Member

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    You might start here:


    ... with more here. Additional videos appear on YouTube as well. Enjoy.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRIA1MWL3RJ5yZEZDaVOamg
     
  5. Massimo

    Massimo Active Member

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    Ticino/Switzerland
  6. jesuvuci

    jesuvuci New Member

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    Here's a feedback...
    What you have done as a single dev is amazing, nice and intuitive interface, decent set of features but...
    Bugs and crashes are your biggest problem.
    Tested Overture a year ago and it was full of bugs and not usable. Tested it yesterday and after 5min poof, crash...this is just not acceptable. You're a single dev so I can understand the lack of polish but for professional use this is a no go, sorry. No offense but you should hire more people, depending on a single person is not a smart investment for me.
     
    rrichard63 and Dewdman42 like this.
  7. rrichard63

    rrichard63 Perpetual Novice

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    For a product as complex as a notation program -- especially a notation program that wants to overlap with DAWs, and especially a program that has been around as long as Overture -- I think this is a valid point.
     
  8. sonicscores

    sonicscores Member

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    jesuvuci,

    Here's my feedback, and I am sure a few are going to get offended, but it is necessary.

    I do understand what you are saying and please take this as information, not criticism:

    What you have posted doesn't help. For example if you wrote a piece of music for someone and their response was it does not sound good. What would you do to fix it? Nothing because they have not given you any details. If they had said at 1:22:20 the horns are too loud, then you would know what to fix. But then if they sent the response to a friend of yours and not directly to you, it might get lost and you would not know what to fix. This is what I deal with daily, and I have stated many, many, times on the Sonic Scores' forum, report bugs, crashes, with details.

    I have also stated before on this forum, please send bugs to the Sonic Scores forum. The Sonic Scores forum has a special forum to report bugs, monitor their status, and believe me as soon as a major bug/crash is reported it is fixed, as long as it can be duplicated. For example the past release, a crash using the the Goto command was reported. I posted immediately that it would be fixed next week and a new patch will be released.

    Does anyone think if you reported on Vi-Control that product B had a crash, they would address it. It needs to be reported with details, directly to the company, and then they will address it. If this is done, I promise you it will be fixed or you will be told when it will be fixed.

    Even if I had four programmers, they still could not fix what you reported, because there are no details and it was reported in the wrong place. All I ask is be helpful by spending the time to duplicate the crash and report it in the proper place. If you want, I'll send you a video of crashing Sibelius by entering one note, and they have a large team.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
  9. jesuvuci

    jesuvuci New Member

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    I tried to replicate and report a crash but couldn't figure what triggered it so gave up as I didn't want to vaste my time anymore.
    A bad experience like this is a way to loose potential customer.

    You need to form an internal group of beta testers. This is how other companies are doing it. A group of "motivated" people can do wonders for your product.
    10$ for bug report, 50$ for repeatable crash report or something like that. This way you don't depend on forum reports, save your time and make your releases rock solid.
    I've been a tester few times so I know how it works...this is how you do it. A one man army is a choice but imo these times are gone, expand your company ;)
     
  10. sonicscores

    sonicscores Member

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    I do have a team of beta testers. I get asked probably one a week for volunteers to be beta testers, of course most just looking for a free copy.
    Before each release a test version is posted on a place where they can test it, but this only works if the testers actually spend the time to replicate the bugs and don't give up. It sounds like you're good at giving advice but not on actually helping. How can a large company like Avid have a major program, Sibelius, crash by inputting one single note. A I stated above, I'll send you a video.

    It is not the quantity of testers, but the quality that is hard to find. There are tons of people telling companies what they should do, but very few willing to simply help. Just search the forums. Read the first 100 pages on the Steinberg forum on the release of Dorico. They have a huge team, spent millions, and users were threatening to sue them because of bugs. I and other companies get people all the time telling how they think the company should do things. We get a few willing to help.

    There are even Dorico users telling Steinberg to do things like Overture. Kinda of funny, isn't it. The simple rule of survival is, you can't please everybody all of the time. Do you want me to list the notation programs that have failed over the past thirty years. I was taught this simple rule by the president of a famous DAW company, and I have survived and doing well.

    Thank You.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
  11. OP
    OP
    Tacet

    Tacet Member

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    Don

    I wouldn't dream of trying to tell you how to run your business, and I fully agree with the other posters that what you achieved as a single developer is truly amazing.

    However, from a commercial standpoint, asking prospective clients who are using the free trial and encountering problems to go through the whole process of creating a login for your forum and posting their feedback there is simply a non starter.

    Personally, I've been playing around with the free trial for a while now, and will probably end up getting OV5 anyway despite its bugginess simply because your crossgrade price is really compelling (now, THAT is a smart commercial move!) - but I really don't have the time or inclination to post feedback on your forum at this stage.

    And frankly, it's not like all bugs get fixed right away, even when current users post them on your forum. Here is an example. This bug is still there: I'm also experiencing it.
    If I start a new project with just a piano track, Export to File works - but if I start a string quartet and try to run it, OV5 crashes.
    This was pointed out to you over a month ago, but the issue is still there - and it's a pretty big one.
    And how about the note value bug?

    The whole point of starting this thread was to gather feedback from existing users, but sadly there don't seem to be that many here, and that is a crying shame.
    I just wonder how big Overture would get if it were less buggy - my bet is it'd get absolutely HUGE.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
  12. sonicscores

    sonicscores Member

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    but most do.

    You are correct in that the original intent was to get feedback, but a few look at it as a place to bash, instead of being helpful. Trust me I have been warned by a few about this whole process. I received several PMs to please ignore thee type of users.

    I promise you if I had a problem with a DAW I use, I would not report the bugs here if I wanted to get an answer, solution, or work around. It would be posted on the DAW's forum. Anything else would become useless to all.

    The example you posted, is on one machine and other users can not duplicate it. I told the user that I would fix it, with his help, when I had time, but releasing Amadeus was top priority. Now that the work required by me on Amadeus is wrapping up it will soon be addressed. I even stated this in my post. Most companies fix bugs once or twice a year. Give me a break.

    The note value bug is a user error who had not read the documentation and this has been posted many times on Sonic Scores forum. If they had go to the correct forum and asked the question, it would have been answered and the issue would be over. My point about this whole process.

    About this: Overture gives the user the ability to display different note heads with any MIDI length, giving you full control over playback, something the other programs can't do, except Dorico in the last release. The user had a switch on that confused the issue. It is confusing if you have never had this flexibility.

    I am confused, you don't have time to post on the Sonic Scores forum, but you have the time to do research on the Sonic Scores forum and this one and post examples. Really. Should I ignore this forum, because I do have an forum with Overture users, to maintain.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
  13. OP
    OP
    Tacet

    Tacet Member

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    Yep: I'm a hobbyist with a day job and right now I have some time to play around with Overture, notice bugs, then check your forum to see if anyone else is experiencing it.
    But normally I try to spend all my free time composing, not posting feedback in developer websites for products I'm free trialing.
    That's the point I was trying to make.

    Anyway, just in case you missed it, I am also experiencing the Export to File issue, not just the other user who posted on your forum.
    It's not an isolated case on ONE machine, clearly.
     
  14. sonicscores

    sonicscores Member

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    Thank you for understanding and I do try to fix every issue I feel is necessary, other minor issues may have to wait a bit. Even though it is hard being a one-man-show, I fix more issues that the other big guys and release updates more often. Sometimes a release may go out earlier than it should and I may miss something, but it gets fixed quickly. My users have reassured me this is a much better process than waiting a year to get bugs fixed. I normally don't criticize other companies, but to use an example, look at the last Finale upgrade features/fixes that cost $149 that took over two years. Is that what users really want?

    BTW, I have been fixing bugs adding many, many new features for the past three years and have not charged for an upgrade. Overture 5 is the best value in town. One of the users who complained many posts ago only paid $99. I added a special feature just for him, and he still complains. No matter what you do, some are just going to complain. Overture is currently being used by many professional composers who make a living using Overture.

    Truthfully Overture has slightly been ignored for several months because of Amadeus. You have to agree that Amadeus was quite an accomplishment.

    I, not being a composer, only an average musician, love composers input, try to keep the prices low, and support the plight of a struggling musician/composer. This is the BIG advantage of being small and not having to answer to stock holders and charge high prices. I am big supporter of the arts. A much larger company would have charged $300-$500 for Amadeus, but that is not what I am trying to accomplish. I want my products to be affordable to all.

    And finally, we have plans for two more incredible libraries, again at an affordable price, next year.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
  15. Dewdman42

    Dewdman42 Senior Member

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    Don, you don’t pay us and it’s not our job to QA your software. When it works better I will consider using it. I already bought it but every single time I have tried to start it up I have ran into bugginess and gui screwiness. It’s not ready yet. Sorry if you don’t like to hear that feedback but that is the truth. We comment here not for the reason of helping you but rather to help other users that are asking about it. They appreciate the candor, as much as it must irritate you, your time would be better spent hiring some engineers to help you.

    Believe me in five years when ov5 works a lot better I could become an evangelist again but it’s not there now.

    Good luck
     
    David Cuny and Rob like this.
  16. OP
    OP
    Tacet

    Tacet Member

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    Sep 22, 2016
    A quick update on the issue I described in my previous post.

    Earlier today Don contacted me and sent me a version of the software with debugging info.
    We spoke on the phone so he could isolate the problem while I ran OV5, and in less than two hours he fixed the issue.
    I believe he plans to release a general fix with the next OV5 update.

    I must admit I was really impressed by Don's dedication and willingness to help a prospective client.
    I wish more software companies were as responsive as that, and not just in the VI area! :)
     
    David Cuny and dflood like this.
  17. mventura

    mventura Member

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    Anybody use Overture with Audio Modeling or Sample Modeling VIs? Curious how well I can get realistic sounds just drawing CC curves. I don't play keyboard.
     
  18. JMJ33101

    JMJ33101 Member

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    Does anyone know how the notation would work if I had for ex. a 1st Violins sustain patch and another 1st Violins staccato patch. Is there a way to connect the 2 patches so that the 2 midi’s notation would become 1?
     
  19. wcreed51

    wcreed51 Senior Member

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    Yes, you would put the 2 1st Violins on separate layers/channels
     
  20. sonicscores

    sonicscores Member

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    Overture offer many possibilities for this.
    You can use articulations to force the notes to play on specific channels.
    You can use expressions to force notes to play on on specific channels.
    You can select a group of notes and set them to play on a specific channel.
    You can assign the notes different voices and set a specific channel for each voice.
     
    wcreed51 likes this.

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