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"Orchestration 1: From Sketch To Orchestra" Lite Course sale

damcry

Member
This is supposed to be a Lite version of the course available at cinematiccomposing.com , however I cant find anywhere the comparison/differences between these 2 courses ...

Anyone ?
 

5Lives

Senior Member
They state they have a 30 day refund policy and 100% satisfaction guaranteed, but it is anything but that if you read the refund policy. You can not even look at more than 30% of the course material and you have to convince them you didn't learn anything (by sending them your completed assignments). They then decide if they agree with you or not and whether to refund you.
 

5Lives

Senior Member
Edit: New thoughts below in new post

So here are my thoughts - they've definitely put in the effort in terms of aggregating material. Can't fault them for that. However, a lot of the course is instrument history and information that you will find elsewhere (many other orchestration courses out there seem to include this too - Thinkspace, Berklee, etc). There's mostly text-based content, very little video content apart from some score excerpts with various aspects highlighted (the melody is in the first violins, etc) with minimal voiceovers. In fact, in general, the course is extremely light on actual orchestration information - section blends, voicing examples / choices, why certain orchestration is preferred over other choices, etc. I ended up paying extra for the film score style examples and those are interesting, but once again, pretty light on actual information in my opinion. It's more of a "here's what they did" vs. a "here's why they did it" type of thing. I prefer having at least some of the latter and to see some more practical application (like orchestrating an original piece or something).

Also, the assignments seem mostly like extremely tedious busy work - transpose this line for all of these instruments like Clarinet in Bb, etc. While that may be good practice for some, as a DAW-based composer / hobbyist, that is not how I want to spend my free time. I couldn't check out the full course because of their refund policy limiting you to 30% of material (not sure if I went over that or not), but anyway, I've requested a refund personally. I still prefer Evenant's approach to teaching things though I may also check out Don Bodin's course here, which seems like more practical and hands on application https://slrworkshops.teachable.com/p/a-foundation-for-mastering-virtual-orchestration
 
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MartinH.

Senior Member
So here are my thoughts - they've definitely put in the effort in terms of aggregating material. Can't fault them for that. However, a lot of the course is instrument history and information that you will find elsewhere (many other orchestration courses out there seem to include this too - Thinkspace, Berklee, etc). There's mostly text-based content, very little video content apart from some score excerpts with various aspects highlighted (the melody is in the first violins, etc) with minimal voiceovers. In fact, in general, the course is extremely light on actual orchestration information - section blends, voicing examples / choices, why certain orchestration is preferred over other choices, etc. I ended up paying extra for the film score style examples and those are interesting, but once again, pretty light on actual information in my opinion. It's more of a "here's what they did" vs. a "here's why they did it" type of thing. I prefer having at least some of the latter and to see some more practical application (like orchestrating an original piece or something).

Also, the assignments seem mostly like extremely tedious busy work - transpose this line for all of these instruments like Clarinet in Bb, etc. While that may be good practice for some, as a DAW-based composer / hobbyist, that is not how I want to spend my free time. I couldn't check out the full course because of their refund policy limiting you to 30% of material (not sure if I went over that or not), but anyway, I've requested a refund personally. I still prefer Evenant's approach to teaching things though I may also check out Don Bodin's course here, which seems like more practical and hands on application https://slrworkshops.teachable.com/p/a-foundation-for-mastering-virtual-orchestration
Thanks for the review, sounds like I would have refunded it as well.

Did you check out this youtube channel yet?
https://www.youtube.com/user/OrchestrationOnline/videos
 

5Lives

Senior Member
Thanks for the review, sounds like I would have refunded it as well.

Did you check out this youtube channel yet?
https://www.youtube.com/user/OrchestrationOnline/videos
I haven't - thanks for sharing! Will check it out. Seems like he did the MacProVideo orchestration videos (which also are primarily about instrument ranges, techniques, etc. it seems). Wish there were more courses for the MIDI / DAW-based composers of today. I will never work with a real orchestra I imagine so while it is interesting to understand how a real violin works and what it can do, I'm more interested to learn about color combinations, layering, voicing, etc.
 

5Lives

Senior Member
So, maybe I spoke too soon. They also do live score study walkthroughs on their Facebook group and I must say, that is exactly what I was hoping for. They go into instrument combinations, voicing, etc. Really hyper valuable - wish they had made those resources more apparent to new students within their site as it is easily the best part of the course IMO.
 

SoNowWhat?

realised I can type here
They state they have a 30 day refund policy and 100% satisfaction guaranteed, but it is anything but that if you read the refund policy. You can not even look at more than 30% of the course material and you have to convince them you didn't learn anything (by sending them your completed assignments). They then decide if they agree with you or not and whether to refund you.
So I take it the 100% satisfaction has to be theirs?

Thank you for the useful comments on your experience.
 

ChrisSiuMusic

Senior Member
I'd love to know everyone's thoughts on what makes an ideal course for the virtual orchestral composer? For me, it would be an over-the-shoulder approach to seeing their workflow, decision making, and how they go about systematically adding elements from piano/guitar sketch to full orchestra. Anything else?
 

NoamL

Winter <3
However, a lot of the course is instrument history and information that you will find elsewhere (many other orchestration courses out there seem to include this too - Thinkspace, Berklee, etc)
This seems to be the case for every online orchestration course. Look at the Orchestral Tools youtube series, they got David Newman to narrate and 90% of it is 101 instrumentation knowledge!
 

5Lives

Senior Member
I'd love to know everyone's thoughts on what makes an ideal course for the virtual orchestral composer? For me, it would be an over-the-shoulder approach to seeing their workflow, decision making, and how they go about systematically adding elements from piano/guitar sketch to full orchestra. Anything else?
This is what I find valuable along with discussions of pros / cons of different instrument combinations. This is why I like the Evenant course and also, Mike Verta’s Orchestration 3 (if you can follow along with his style).

The score walkthroughs from this course are really nicely done - very helpful I’d say!
 

5Lives

Senior Member
So I take it the 100% satisfaction has to be theirs?

Thank you for the useful comments on your experience.
Well they never got back to me after 2 emails about the refund, but then I discovered their score walkthroughs so retracted my request. Who knows if they would’ve even responded though.
 

jonathanparham

Active Member
For me, it would be an over-the-shoulder approach to seeing their workflow, decision making, and how they go about systematically adding elements from piano/guitar sketch to full orchestra. Anything else?
It's being revamped but Alain walks through this with orchestration 1 in scoreclub. He has three videos at the end of that course where he talks and sketches his choices
 
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