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Orchestral Tools: Junkie XL Brass—new update for solo horn and horn sections available

why are people surprised it would cost 3m+ to make this library?

hire 40 top level anythings, pay them hourly, pay to rent an extremely coveted location for months(or years) pay for some top notch technicians to not only be there while you hire the other 40 top notchers, but also dealing with it after. Then pay people to painstakingly, mind numbingly, but accurately deal with a very repetitive task, and produce results in an organized way so that someone else can figure out how to make a usable product out of them.

It's probably even more difficult to get these excellent musicians to agree to such a process like sampling something... You could imagine, if I asked you to sit in a room perfectly still, and do the same thing, exactly the same way a bunch of times, now make it slightly different, and do that a bunch of times - and I did this as a full time job for months with you - you'd go insane.

especially if you're used to playing new and interesting music.

"any cool soundtracks you work on since thanksgiving?"
"nope, just recording every note 9872398723 times"
 
ProfoundSilence said:
why are people surprised it would cost 3m+ to make this library?
Click to expand...

First, jamworks was saying that he thought the player alone costs 3M:

With their new player (that undoubtedly costs a lot, around $3M I'd say),
Click to expand...


As for the library itself

Libraries simply dont cost that much to make. I am not saying they dont cost a lot, but they dont cost in the millions. I have no idea where this was recorded, but take Teldex for ex., where OT records frequently. Any idea how much it costs to record there? About 5k Euros for the day (two sessions). Just for the studio (incl personnel). The musicians are 300 Euros for the day, each, with section leaders getting double. The conductor is about 1k per day.

So, to record 10 musicians simultaneously for a week, that will run you - I am doing quick math here - about 46k Euros. Less musicians will of course be a little less; more musicians will be a bit more.

Now, how much material do you think they can record in an entire week? They do complete Hollywood scores in less time than that.

Now, you of course have to add on other costs - paying people to cut samples and build Kontakt patches (if you, the owners dont do that), you have to spend money on marketing, a trip to NAMM, maybe you do a test session or two.

So, while these libraries are not cheap, they aren't in the millions. Think for a moment - do you know how long you'd have to record for, to spend a million dollars? Go and figure out how much time your sample library is. Let me know if you need some help figuring it out. :)
 
ProfoundSilence said:
why are people surprised it would cost 3m+ to make this library?

hire 40 top level anythings...
Click to expand...

I thought the 3 million was only estimated for the player software without any sample content. And personally I think 40 engineers on something like that is insane. Much more efficient to employ fewer developers for longer. If you really assume years of fulltime development and R&D on a multi-person team maybe 3m is not too far off, I don't know. Just as a sample player that would seem waaay excessive to me, but if they also made a scripting environment like Kontakt offers I could see it taking years (longer than planned). But IF it really costs 3m, I don't see how they are gonna recoup that cost because there are people who have settled on kontakt-based workflows and who won't (be able to) just switch to their new player. I'd love to know the detailed reasons behind their decision.
 
erica-grace said:
How do you know that's from the recording session? Where'd the pic come from?

I mean, I hope it IS from the session. :)
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It's from the trailer... And as someone else pointed out, at 1m26s you can see a dozen Trombone players too.
I also see at least 10 horn players in the video at some point, possibly more...
 
Saxer said:
Quite misleading preview in the browser page... :)
Junk-Y.jpg
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Thank you. I would have been more interested in HZ brass...or practically anyone but his partner, who imo he could have done without.

There are so many great brass libraries out there....
 
From what I heard from the Namm interview yesterday Junkie made it sound like there will not be a Kontakt version of the library....Is that accurate?
 
valexnerfarious said:
From what I heard from the Namm interview yesterday Junkie made it sound like there will not be a Kontakt version of the library....Is that accurate?
Click to expand...
I was right in front of him and I didn't get that impression. The OT team said at their keynote that their future libraries will still be available for kontakt, as well as their new player.
 
Jdiggity1 said:
I was right in front of him and I didn't get that impression. The OT team said at their keynote that their future libraries will still be available for kontakt, as well as their new player.
Click to expand...

Hmmm.. But why would they bother with Kontakt, and it's licensing fees, when they have their own sample engine ?

Actually, I don't recall them saying they will be releasing their future/new libraries in Kontakt.
 
erica-grace said:
First, jamworks was saying that he thought the player alone costs 3M:




As for the library itself

Libraries simply dont cost that much to make. I am not saying they dont cost a lot, but they dont cost in the millions. I have no idea where this was recorded, but take Teldex for ex., where OT records frequently. Any idea how much it costs to record there? About 5k Euros for the day (two sessions). Just for the studio (incl personnel). The musicians are 300 Euros for the day, each, with section leaders getting double. The conductor is about 1k per day.

So, to record 10 musicians simultaneously for a week, that will run you - I am doing quick math here - about 46k Euros. Less musicians will of course be a little less; more musicians will be a bit more.

Now, how much material do you think they can record in an entire week? They do complete Hollywood scores in less time than that.

Now, you of course have to add on other costs - paying people to cut samples and build Kontakt patches (if you, the owners dont do that), you have to spend money on marketing, a trip to NAMM, maybe you do a test session or two.

So, while these libraries are not cheap, they aren't in the millions. Think for a moment - do you know how long you'd have to record for, to spend a million dollars? Go and figure out how much time your sample library is. Let me know if you need some help figuring it out. :)
Click to expand...
I could be dead wrong here, but I think I recall Doug Rogers saying that it cost 1 million to make Hollywood Strings.

PS. Don't quote me on that.
 
muziksculp said:
Hmmm.. But why would they bother with Kontakt, and it's licensing fees, when they have their own sample engine ?

Actually, I don't recall them saying they will be releasing their future/new libraries in Kontakt.
Click to expand...

There's no license fee to libraries that are external, rather than the ones that show up with the fancy icon and need a serial key activation. This is because the external ones accesed via file browser require the user to own full version of kontakt; money in NI's pocket.
 
Mike Fox said:
I could be dead wrong here, but I think I recall Doug Rogers saying that it cost 1 million to make Hollywood Strings.

PS. Don't quote me on that.
Click to expand...

He did say that. I remember.

I cry BS. There is no hall/studio expense (he owns it), no equipment expense (he owns everything). So he has to pay his employees, Shawn Murphy, and the musicians. There are other costs, maybe, but think about how much he is paying the musicians (you can get a quote), and how much time it takes to record (you can get an estimate by looking at the library size)

No way it costs 1M
 
I'm extremely excited for this library. I'll say that I'm not a huge fan of Tom's music. But after hearing the interview, you begin to understand why this should deserve hype.

Tom has extensive experience not only working with live brass players, but programming with samples. That's why it's really reassuring listening to the interview, because he mentions so many different issues that he has with the current libraries on the market, and so many things that he always wants to do that existing libraries struggle with. When you think about his situation, he's someone who sketches out his tracks first, but who also always eventually gets them recorded live. So his goal is to represent the live performance as accurately as he can, and that means that his mind is always in the right place for developing this VST.
 
My concern is that OT are doing the Spitfire thing with not lets say making the EW Choir for Kontakt as well as their own sampler..I just want to know if there will be a Kontakt version of JXl Brass
 
valexnerfarious said:
My concern is that OT are doing the Spitfire thing with not lets say making the EW Choir for Kontakt as well as their own sampler..I just want to know if there will be a Kontakt version of JXl Brass
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I would guess there will not be a Kontakt version of JXL Brass, but who knows. I also get the sense that the major concern is copy protection, not licensing fees, though it's not clear to me why specialized samplers would have such an advantage in this respect. Maybe it's just that they know what the copy protection flaws of Kontakt are and that there is no way to address them without working through Native Instruments and on NI's schedule.
 
The new OT Sample Engine is supposed to do things that Kontakt can't do, especially the Legato functionality, so I doubt OT will bother offering an NI version of their upcoming libraries, also why bother with the extra labor, and cost to port things to Kontakt again. Makes no sense to me.
 
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