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Orchestral Tools: Berlin Series on SINE now!

muziksculp said:
Hi @A.Heppelmann ,

I'm going to watch your String Articulation Video tutorial on YT, where you are using BS (SINE) , I'm sure I will benefit from watching it, and learn some helpful tips. I would love it if you release more of these type of videos focused on Articulations, how to use them, which ones for what, and how they relate to each other in various musical phrasing scenarios. Plus, any tips and tricks related to using various articulations to enhance realism.

Thanks You for making these videos. :thumbsup:

How do you like the SINE versions of Berlin Main Orch. so far ?

Cheers,
Muziksculp
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Which video are you referring to?
 
A.Heppelmann said:
Did you merge them together?
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Sorry to double-quote lol but i figured I'd clarify that i usually keep the close and surround levels fairly low. The AB sounds low to my ears so i have the tree and AB cranked up and sometimes i do have the AB higher than the tree just because that's what's needed in order to even hear it in some situations. Also I've only had a week or so with the strings and a year with the rest, so if you ask me again in a year I'd bet my mix will be different. For now though it gives me just enough detail and clarity, just enough room, just enough fullness.
 
muziksculp said:
How do you like the SINE versions of Berlin Main Orch. so far ?
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I'll probably need another week to properly answer this. I'm working on a new orchestration video, so I'll get a chance to use all of the SINE libraries for the first time together. I only just finished my VEP7 template with all of the SINE libraries. I've noticed a fair number of bugs and small issues that I hope OT fixes soon, but other than that it's been a fairly smooth transition. I don't really get along with Kontakt all that well for whatever reason, so I'm glad to be using SINE, even in its current state. My biggest complaint is that there were a number of issues in the Kontakt versions (like woodwind volume) that still haven't been addressed, and at this point I don't think they ever will be.
 
A.Heppelmann said:
I'll probably need another week to properly answer this. I'm working on a new orchestration video, so I'll get a chance to use all of the SINE libraries for the first time together. I only just finished my VEP7 template with all of the SINE libraries. I've noticed a fair number of bugs and small issues that I hope OT fixes soon, but other than that it's been a fairly smooth transition. I don't really get along with Kontakt all that well for whatever reason, so I'm glad to be using SINE, even in its current state. My biggest complaint is that there were a number of issues in the Kontakt versions (like woodwind volume) that still haven't been addressed, and at this point I don't think they ever will be.
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Thanks for the feedback.

I would encourage you to email the list of issues/bugs you encountered to OT Tech-Support, they will at least know about them. I surely hope they are in full steam ahead mode to fix all the reported bugs, issues, and also improve the features of the SINE player. I'm still optimistic they will make all SINE users happy in the near future, it's just the waiting for them to happen that's not the fun part.

Cheers,
Muziksculp
 
Casiquire said:
Sorry to double-quote lol but i figured I'd clarify that i usually keep the close and surround levels fairly low. The AB sounds low to my ears so i have the tree and AB cranked up and sometimes i do have the AB higher than the tree just because that's what's needed in order to even hear it in some situations. Also I've only had a week or so with the strings and a year with the rest, so if you ask me again in a year I'd bet my mix will be different. For now though it gives me just enough detail and clarity, just enough room, just enough fullness.
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I'll give these mic settings a try. I'm not very confident in my mixing skills, so it's nice to hear what mics and settings people are using.
 
Tree mics mostly, very often using the close (or spot as it’s called now) to add definition to strings without making them too midrange heavy and muddy. I find the strings have a pretty thick sound to begin with, so too much mid or AB mic signal can make things a bit congested sometimes in the midrange. Tree and ORTF for woods, basically keeping it just like the Kontakt version… beautiful detail. Sometimes light close mics in woods. I don’t have the brass but, for JXL brass in the same room I use the unprocessed tree mics only 90 percent of the time, but the surround or room for trumpets so they sound more distant and less “quacky”. Percussion usually only the tree. Strings and woods are what I feel benefit most from close/spot mics in any library.

Side note… do the SINE strings have the “noise” mic that was included in Kontakt? I remember sometimes using that super lightly to have more bow/scratchiness to them. With SINE I didn’t download all the mic positions (yet), just tree, spots and leader. If that noise layer is included, which mic position is it?
 
bfreepro said:
Side note… do the SINE strings have the “noise” mic that was included in Kontakt? I remember sometimes using that super lightly to have more bow/scratchiness to them. With SINE I didn’t download all the mic positions (yet), just tree, spots and leader. If that noise layer is included, which mic position is it?
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Nope, and someone in one of these threads says OT told them there is no plan to port it.
 
bfreepro said:
Side note… do the SINE strings have the “noise” mic that was included in Kontakt? I remember sometimes using that super lightly to have more bow/scratchiness to them. With SINE I didn’t download all the mic positions (yet), just tree, spots and leader. If that noise layer is included, which mic position is it?
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No. There is no 'Noise' mic in BS (SINE).

These are the mics you get in BS (SINE)

 
bfreepro said:
Tree mics mostly, very often using the close (or spot as it’s called now) to add definition to strings without making them too midrange heavy and muddy. I find the strings have a pretty thick sound to begin with, so too much mid or AB mic signal can make things a bit congested sometimes in the midrange. Tree and ORTF for woods, basically keeping it just like the Kontakt version… beautiful detail. Sometimes light close mics in woods. I don’t have the brass but, for JXL brass in the same room I use the unprocessed tree mics only 90 percent of the time, but the surround or room for trumpets so they sound more distant and less “quacky”. Percussion usually only the tree. Strings and woods are what I feel benefit most from close/spot mics in any library.

Side note… do the SINE strings have the “noise” mic that was included in Kontakt? I remember sometimes using that super lightly to have more bow/scratchiness to them. With SINE I didn’t download all the mic positions (yet), just tree, spots and leader. If that noise layer is included, which mic position is it?
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Interesting, i find the strings pretty bright and often feel they need to get warmed up. Different strokes! Plus probably different arrangements and different mixes they need to fit in to. It just goes to show that sometimes you just can't get around the fact that you need to trust your own ears in your own musical context.
 
Casiquire said:
Interesting, i find the strings pretty bright and often feel they need to get warmed up. Different strokes! Plus probably different arrangements and different mixes they need to fit in to. It just goes to show that sometimes you just can't get around the fact that you need to trust your own ears in your own musical context.
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Yeah generally I love brightness for strings though, especially violins. As much as I love CSS it’s just too dark and warm for me and I EQ the hell out of it, and then it adds in more of that room noise/hiss. Then some things like Spitfire studio strings pro are very bright but often sound too thin to me. I feel BS, tone-wise, is a good balance overall between the two. But with just 1st or 2nd violins or the whole string ensemble on their own, exposed, I could definitely see myself using AB mics and making them sound thicker and more rich, but when they’re all playing together with the rest of the ensemble and orchestra, it all sits fairly nicely I think.
 
muziksculp said:
Yes, they tend to be on the bright side. You can enable the Cutoff Filter, and nudge the Filter Range slider below it a bit to the right, to cut some of the bright high frequencies, and it will sound much warmer.

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That's great to know, thanks! Someone here mentioned that in kontakt the cutoff filter was for smoothing out dynamic crossfades so i just assumed it was the same in SINE and decided not to even touch it
 
I know I've been one of the more vocal critics of OT in this thread on account of several different factors, but I would like to chime in and say something positive. Apart from the issues in the SINE ports, I actually like the SINE player itself. In fact, I prefer it over Capsule/Kontakt personally. I'm not sure how to describe it exactly but there is something about the UI that makes my brain find it easier to navigate than Kontakt, particularly as it pertains to navigating/cycling through articulations, setting up multis, etc.
 
tim727 said:
I know I've been one of the more vocal critics of OT in this thread on account of several different factors, but I would like to chime in and say something positive. Apart from the issues in the SINE ports, I actually like the SINE player itself. In fact, I prefer it over Capsule/Kontakt personally. I'm not sure how to describe it exactly but there is something about the UI that makes my brain find it easier to navigate than Kontakt, particularly as it pertains to navigating/cycling through articulations, setting up multis, etc.
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Yeah, Kontakt is hard on the eyes. But that maybe to do with how much functionality it has to fit in a small area. Sine is easy to navigate because it is a very underdeveloped piece of software.
 
JTB said:
Yeah, Kontakt is hard on the eyes. But that maybe to do with how much functionality it has to fit in a small area. Sine is easy to navigate because it is a very underdeveloped piece of software.
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That's a valid point. I think the ways in which it's underdeveloped, per others here, don't affect me as much personally so for me I see benefits more than cons. But of course that will differ depending on each person's workflow. One think that I do find baffling in the UI is that it doesn't seem like it actually tells you the master volume anywhere, unless I'm just missing it?? There's that control in the lower right but it doesn't seem to actually say the number anywhere, leaving you to just guess as to what it is, which if I'm not missing something, is just ... I don't know, a really odd choice.
 
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Living Fossil said:
At the point when i bought the library, it stated "required samples will be reloaded"; now it states
"required instruments".
which is especially bad style, since it gives them the space to say: "yes, an "instrument" means every single sample of every single articulation".
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Damn. Add that to OT's "it's not a bug it's a feature" seemingly growing list. This is truely unfortunate.
 
tim727 said:
I know I've been one of the more vocal critics of OT in this thread on account of several different factors, but I would like to chime in and say something positive. Apart from the issues in the SINE ports, I actually like the SINE player itself. In fact, I prefer it over Capsule/Kontakt personally. I'm not sure how to describe it exactly but there is something about the UI that makes my brain find it easier to navigate than Kontakt, particularly as it pertains to navigating/cycling through articulations, setting up multis, etc.
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I'm with you on that one. Kontakt is SO versatile but in order to get to a lot of features you have extremely tiny targets to click with the mouse and that gets tiring, although it can be highly automated. That's just it: I'm a software developer by day so I could go bonkers with all you can script in Kontakt... and them I'm a software developer again. When I leave that world for the day, I want simple and intuitive. I use Win10 because that's my life career but all of my devices are iOS-only. Well, that's what the Spitfire Player and SINE are to me. Slap it in and start playing and make the UI simple so I don't have to think about it. OK, the Store in SINE is not a fave (PayPal doesn't work, have to use the website anyway) and it all takes too long to load that or your licenses, BUT, the playing and performance part I like. Spitfire too mostly, but put all 12 articulations on one page and all the mics on another--they have ROOM. But overall, I'm committed to investing my time to know SINE in-and-out. It's not even 2.X yet, it'll get better, took NI a few iterations to get Kontakt to settle down back in the day.
 
tim727 said:
I know I've been one of the more vocal critics of OT in this thread on account of several different factors, but I would like to chime in and say something positive. Apart from the issues in the SINE ports, I actually like the SINE player itself. In fact, I prefer it over Capsule/Kontakt personally. I'm not sure how to describe it exactly but there is something about the UI that makes my brain find it easier to navigate than Kontakt, particularly as it pertains to navigating/cycling through articulations, setting up multis, etc.
Click to expand...
Same here
 
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