Orchestral Tools Ark 1, 2 & 3 free upgrade

Discussion in 'SAMPLE Talk' started by Jerry Growl, Jan 10, 2019.

  1. bfreepro

    bfreepro Infinite Musical Possibilites

    Unfortunately this problem isn’t isolated with just the strings, I have the same issue with some of the brass, especially the 9 horns. I have so many libraries that outperform MA1 by a landslide when it comes to actually having consistently crisp and tight short notes, it’s hard not to be at least a little frustrated. I doubt I’ll be buying any more from OT, as even Inspire has similar problems in with some patches. They have just never lived up to the massive hype I’m afraid. I bought MA1 mostly for the choirs and brass(really needed a large horn ensemble with good marcatos) as it had such a good sale and it was a choice between that or Talos Horns (already own Jaeger and Talos Lo Brass). I picked MA1 simply because of how many users rave about it and I thought it would offer more useable content. I wish I would have picked Talos Horns.
     
  2. Brian Nowak

    Brian Nowak Active Member

    191
    263
    Jan 9, 2018
    Yeah you are onto something here. The single articulation tail is entirely different than the multi. I only use the multis in the Ark libraries because it suits my workflow better. I looked around for differences in the settings and did not see anything engaged that would have caused this to happen.

    However, if you look at the microphone page you can see clearly in the single articulation menu that the volume cuts off quicker upon releasing the key than with the multi articulation (in the mics themselves - like the volume meters in the microphones just fall off).

    My best guess is that when they "fixed" the release they were only working in the multi and didn't check the single articulation files. And I would then venture to guess that the single articulation preset points to the old files.

    Another oddity is that the single articulation goes two notes higher than the multi. Very weird!

    EDIT: I actually opened the wave editor and confirmed it. The single articulation points to a different set of samples altogether than the multi. Looks like somebody didn't do a thorough job. Whooooops!
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
    Land of Missing Parts likes this.
  3. will_m

    will_m Active Member

    284
    190
    Nov 28, 2011
    I would have though the strings shorts in MA1 could be fixed quite easily, it just sounds like the sample editing is off, so some of the RR samples have too much dead space at the start of the sample.

    To me the timing isn't just humanised its plain sloppy sounding, on faster phrases its even worse.
     
    SirKen, FinGael, bfreepro and 3 others like this.
  4. Land of Missing Parts

    Land of Missing Parts Confabulous Fop

    698
    1,041
    Jan 27, 2013
    NYC
    Next time they roll out a product with pre-release pricing, no advanced copies sent for review, I'll keep in mind this little bit of shoddy quality control.
     
    TheSigillite and SirKen like this.
  5. MartinH.

    MartinH. Active Member

    442
    405
    Jun 16, 2018
    Can someone who already has a support ticket open with OT please point them to this thread so that they have all the info available to them that they need to fix these things?
     
    bfreepro likes this.
  6. Brian Nowak

    Brian Nowak Active Member

    191
    263
    Jan 9, 2018
    LOL at this point I feel like somebody should warn poor Tom Holkenborg before he announces his plan to team up with them for his brass library.

    Who knows though? Maybe he'll insist on better sample editors.
     
  7. jbuhler

    jbuhler Senior Member

    957
    1,366
    Jun 19, 2016
    US
    I've not had any issues with the a9 horn and I use it a lot. On the other hand I don't really expect a crisp, tight short from 9 horns, because that's just not what 9 horns are designed to do. At least I don't think so.
     
    Land of Missing Parts likes this.
  8. Brian Nowak

    Brian Nowak Active Member

    191
    263
    Jan 9, 2018
    Yeah same here. I get pretty damn good results from the brass spare a weird note here and there. It's not like it's meant to be some super nimble ninja anyway. Brutish stuff.
     
  9. bfreepro

    bfreepro Infinite Musical Possibilites

    I am not expecting it to be super nimble and tight, but it's obvious to me that just one of the staccato round robins has a different attack from the rest. It's obviously not as important as the strings but it's still apparent to me in certain note ranges.



    The second note in this phrase plays in different timing on each play thru, as if the note has moved up a bit in the sequencer. It's small, and it's not a deal breaker, but I swear I'm not making it up haha. It just follows the same pattern of inconsistent RR attack/timing. If I have a bunch of libraries layering over this same repeated note phrase, one (Ark) would be slightly out of sync with the rest. If I place a note to be played at a certain time, I just naturally expect it to be played at that time. Every other library I own performs this way with staccato notes. I donno.
     
  10. Land of Missing Parts

    Land of Missing Parts Confabulous Fop

    698
    1,041
    Jan 27, 2013
    NYC
    Yeah, that's another issue to add to the list. It'd be annoying to nudge the midi note, and have the timing change each time you play back.

    In the meantime, you might be able to do a quick fix by disabling round robins.
    Screen Shot 2019-01-11 at 8.12.05 PM.png
     
    bfreepro likes this.
  11. MartinH.

    MartinH. Active Member

    442
    405
    Jun 16, 2018
    I don't think that is a good solution because one note might have the misaligned sample in slot 4, another note might have one in slot 2, and you'd be giving those up accross all notes even if those are perfectly fine. Also this only works with the single articulation because the multi doesn't have the RR slots exposed afaik.

    Imho the way to work around this is to hit the RR reset key at the start of every midi clip and then - by ear - shift the problematic notes off the grid to make it sound as if they are on the grid. This works with the multi too.

    The downside is, that with the next update when they fix these flaws, it will sound off again. Or maybe it doesn't if they can fix it in just the instrument files without touching the sample content, and distribute them in a v 1.3 folder so that both old and new can co-exist. I think that would be the way to go.

    Alternatively to hitting the RR reset key every time, you can set the "new note resets RR" option to on and make the timer low enough to produce predictable results, but I'm leaning towards the manual method.



    The main takeaway for me from all this is, that apparently all reviews of all sample products and all user opinions are essentially worthless for assessing the number of flaws in sample libraries, because no one ever meticulously tests all the samples and options and combinations (I mean how could they? It's impossible) and in consequence it always will be a gamble and you're well advised only to buy libraries that have resale options or really long refund windows, or come from devs that are known to fix their stuff rigorously, even if the bugs are found 5 years after release.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
    SirKen and Land of Missing Parts like this.
  12. bfreepro

    bfreepro Infinite Musical Possibilites

    I am not holding out with any hope that it will be updated. I emailed support and all he said was he doesn’t hear anything wrong and users prefer it with imperfections. For some reason not many people seem to point these things out even tho it’s so glaring. People seem to love it and praise it for its bold sound and I’m sure it sells like hot cakes even after a few years. I’ll actually send this thread to the support ticket I have open, but I’m not really optimistic about it all being fixed at this point, sadly. Especially if it just had its first major update in years and the issues are still as apparent as ever.
     
    galactic orange likes this.
  13. MartinH.

    MartinH. Active Member

    442
    405
    Jun 16, 2018
    Well, I'm a user too and I certainly don't prefer broken timing that makes it impossible to get an even rythm out of the affected staccato samples. That's not an imperfection, that's a flaw, and I think it should be possible to fix it fairly easily. If I want imperfect timing, I will use the humanize feature in my DAW.

    It has the best marketing in the entire VI world. I can respect that as an impressive feat on its own. But I'd rather have it be the best product in the VI world.

    Thanks! Maybe I still have more hope because I can sympathize with the challenges of software development (and needing solid repro cases) and this is my first OT product and I've never dealt with them directly. But if they don't fix this stuff, it's likely gonna be my last OT product.
     
    SirKen, galactic orange and bfreepro like this.
  14. bfreepro

    bfreepro Infinite Musical Possibilites

    I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said. Besides TIME Macro, I have not been too impressed with their libraries. They are not bad by any means, just never really blowing me away. To be fair, I do think it has something to do with the massive hype and unanimous praise they receive, as I see so many people say OT and Spitfire are the best sample companies today, and it may not even be possible to live up to that hype. I really don’t want to be overly negative as the overall sounds are very good, but the inconsistencies seem more glaring and obvious to me than with any other library I have ever used.

    I have replied to the support email I got this morning, and have linked him to this specific thread. Even if nothing official comes from this as far as fixes, I can at least rest easy knowing I’m not completely insane and that others feel the same way about certain aspects of this library, heh.
     
    SirKen and MartinH. like this.
  15. Goldie Zwecker

    Goldie Zwecker Active Member

    322
    154
    Feb 1, 2017
    You know, i've been around here for a while. I have quite a lot of stuff from Spitfire and now also the Arks, after the latest sales. And all i see is some users say OT string shorts are rubbish, Spitfire string shorts are rubbish, Strezov Afflatus has phasing issues, Cinematic studio strings not realistic enough, etc etc. So i kinda wonder, what all these people consider as good libraries.
     
  16. djrustycans

    djrustycans New Member

    43
    30
    Dec 29, 2015
    I never leave MIDI running live at the end of projects so if there are ever any timing anomalies, I just edit these in the audio - admittedly that’s not ideal but in most cases not a huge problem.
     
  17. bfreepro

    bfreepro Infinite Musical Possibilites

    Lol I actually saw the Afflatus phasing issue post earlier this morning. I often find points to critique with many libraries, but that doesn’t mean they are bad. It’s worth noting I own Afflatus, Albion One, Spitfire Woods, Spitfire Solo Strings, 8dio Century Strings and brass, EW Hollywood orchestra, Audio Imperia Jaeger... there’s probably more but I use each one them all the time, and none of them have the same issue with the shorts on multiple patches as MA1, so it’s nearly impossible not to notice it and be a bit frustrated. They all have weak points, but 95% of the time, they all consistently perform as you’d expect. I also know this thread turned a bit negative, so I again want to state that MA1 is NOT a bad library. It fills a niche and has EXCELLENT sounds, it is just sad knowing how much better it would be if the darn shorts synced up and it performed like all the others I mentioned. My issue really isn’t with the sounds, and I still think it is a good library, just not living up to the hype and held back quite a bit by the inconsistent performance.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  18. MartinH.

    MartinH. Active Member

    442
    405
    Jun 16, 2018
    They're all "good" (Ark 1 too), but none of them are "perfect". The "best" one for you is the one that only has issues that don't matter for your usecase.
    I don't even consider myself "picky" when it comes to audio, I think if I can hear an issue, it must be so bad that everyone else can hear it too.
     
    SirKen likes this.
  19. OP
    OP
    Jerry Growl

    Jerry Growl Composing Music in the Plastic Dark Ages

    110
    84
    Jul 4, 2017
    Belgium
    Any DIY vids / tips / links out there that might help non-pro users adjust individual sample start positions for a sample that is clearly out of sync with the rest ?

    Often it's quicker, relaxer and more rewarding to fix or adjust things yourself than to write a complaint or to submit a support ticket. Not that I would not want a perfect product for the price we pay...
     
  20. MartinH.

    MartinH. Active Member

    442
    405
    Jun 16, 2018
    You mean in Kontakt player? Don't think it's possible. Only option is to do what I explained in post #71 in this thread.
     

Share This Page