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Orchestral library for 1000€

Hoooolly Cow, I didn’t expect to see so many replies :o. So first of all thank you for all your answers :)

I’m sorry for late response – yesterday we had Eurovision and that’s a big deal in Europe :D.

So maybe I’ll start from these questions:


questions:
1. What type of music are you wanting to write, give some examples .

2. How knowledgeable are you about, music theory and orchestration .

3. can you read and write music

4. what is your DAW of choice and what OS


Ad 1. At the end of the day I would like to write some kind of symphonic… psychedelic… rock :o. I’d like to combine more “classical” sound with rough old guitars, but… There is a long and winding road to do this, so I’d like to be focused on learning for first 8-12. My plan is to try to recreate some movie soundtracks to understand how it works.

Ad 2. My only knowledge from orchestration is what I read in “Principles of Orchestration” by Nikolay Rimsky-Korsakov (by the way – great book… for me).

Ad 3. Yes I can read and write music. I have 24 years of experience in playing on piano.

Ad 4. I’m using Reaper on Win 10. Additional information about my computer: Intel I7 8 gen, 6 cores, 32GB RAM, Nvidia GeForce GTX 1050 Ti, SSD + HDD


Then you should start with libraries that have individual sections, […]

I definitely agree with this. First thing is to learn how to lead the part of each section.

Hi! Happy to see another composer diving into the orchestral world!


Thank you, I’m happy too . Thank you for a lot of useful information.


My very first advice will be this one: Wait until summer for possible sales.


That’s a good idea. So while going through all the posts I came up with a plan to try EastWest first, because it can be subscribed and meanwhile do a deeper research and wait for possible sales.

Just a note - you wouldn't need the whole Albion series if you're just getting in orchestrating. Albion II is discontinued, Albion 3-5 are fairly specific in their purpose, and just kind of expand a bit into more niche areas of the orchestra that Albion ONE already covers at a general level. […]


Thank you – I didn’t know about that.


Honestly, if you're just getting into this, I think having a subscription option for a quality product is a smart way to go.


It sounds really reasonable.

I assume that by "pure symphonic music" you mean pure sounding orchestral music with no sound design sounds, synths, or other hybrid stuff.


That’s right – for first few months no more additional instruments.


My advice :

[…]


Thank you – that is really helpful


One more thing: buy full Kontakt in the NI sale. Once you have this you will be able to get hundreds of great free or cheap instruments. Also a lot of the best paid libraries are only available with full Kontakt.


I didn’t think about it before, I have to check it.


Hi, lutzek. I was looking very much for the same thing when I started looking into VIs a year ago. [...]


Also thank you - a lot of interesting and useful information :)
 
Berlin Orchestra Inspire - I don't have an opinion about that one. Is one mic position a big problem?
Sometimes the strings are too close miced for my taste, especially the spiccatos. I like a bit of blur on my spiccatos when writing fast lines. You can get them to sound more distant by cranking up the Attack, thus eliminating the transient and leaving the room sound, but that trick will not work on sustains, so the strings will not sound consistent if you do that.
 
If you're looking at getting an orchestral library and getting full Kontakt, your best bet is probably to get the library first, and then later on get a crossgrade price to full Kontakt from that. The crossgrade generally goes on sale once or a couple times per year, too, which all in all means you can potentially pay something like $130 for Kontakt instead of $500.
 
Ad 1. At the end of the day I would like to write some kind of symphonic… psychedelic… rock :o. I’d like to combine more “classical” sound with rough old guitars, but… There is a long and winding road to do this, so I’d like to be focused on learning for first 8-12. My plan is to try to recreate some movie soundtracks to understand how it works.

Ad 2. My only knowledge from orchestration is what I read in “Principles of Orchestration” by Nikolay Rimsky-Korsakov (by the way – great book… for me).

Ad 3. Yes I can read and write music. I have 24 years of experience in playing on piano.

Ad 4. I’m using Reaper on Win 10. Additional information about my computer: Intel I7 8 gen, 6 cores, 32GB RAM, Nvidia GeForce GTX 1050 Ti, SSD + HDD


well I would suggest getting Dorico or Sibeluis with noteperformer to start with. Easy to write quickly and hear it back. Noteperformer is perfectly good enough to get a handle on how things will sound. Then for the Sample Libraries i'd recommend spitfire symphonic strings. The new studio woodwind and brass are great too but very dry. I prefer this for a lot of things but Still use Cinebrass a lot ( both libraries ) for full on Hollywood. Their perc is great too.

for studying Hollywood orchestration get the omnimusic scores( https://omnimusicpublishing.com/ ) and just pick a few cues and enter them in your Scoring software . Then save as a midi file. Import the WAV from the soundtrack CD...and try and copy it in the DAW with good samples. You'll learn heaps !

best


ed
 
Hollywood Orchestra is still the best library for the price. Quality, quantity, and affordability are all there. Play is the only hangup for some.

That's true, but with its complicated setup and inconsistent programming it is not a good choice for beginners. It's complicated and difficult to use well. The Cinematic Studio Series have a much more beginner friendly learning curve.
 
That's true, but with its complicated setup and inconsistent programming it is not a good choice for beginners. It's complicated and difficult to use well. The Cinematic Studio Series have a much more beginner friendly learning curve.
There's certanly a learning curve, but there's a learning curve with any software (the legato in CSS is a nightmare to learn, which is probably why they include a basic version?). I just wouldn't let that stop a beginner from using it, escpecially now that there's a ton of youtube tutorials now. After a couple of hours, i think someone could have Play figured out pretty well, no?

EWQLSO was actually my first real orchestral library, and the only real difficult thing i remember was the installation, "WARNING! Your software is out of date". Anyone who purchased the boxed versions back in the day will know what im talking about! :roflmao:
 
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Until you decided what to buy i can recommend the free Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra.
It's not great, but it's a full orchestra with sustain, staccato and pizzicato articulations. I used it before i had any money and i'm extremy grateful it exists :)
 
@Mike Fox the problem I see for beginners is not with Play, but with the Hollywood Orchestra libraries. The problem with Play is that it's horribly rigid and inflexible to set up (custom keyswitching not possible without external software...). But that could be overcome.

The layout of the libraries however, with their wealth of patches to choose from, will certainly be overwhelming for any beginner. You need a very good understanding of all the instruments and their playing techniques to understand what half of these patches are doing (the nonsensical naming doesn't make it any easier). Even if you got that it's an arduous task to try each of these and decide on which ones you want to use in your template. Add the inconsistent programming (why the heck are dynamics sometimes controlled by cc11, and sometimes by cc1?) and you get the very ingredients for a complete overload of anybody who is not already very firm with samplers, sample libraries, daws, and orchestration.

Setting up and controlling Cinematic Studio Series - even with the legato lag - is a breeze in comparison.
 
Hollywood Orchestra is for the money definitely the best option - nothing complicated about it, you load a patch, you write/play. Same as any other standard lib. And I would start with gold which is super cheap - listen to some demos ppl did with it, it can still sound really good! The only thing that sucks is, that it uses PLAY, but if you do not have Kontakt, then it is actually plus, as many libs need full Kontakt which cost like the library itself.


I would definitely not go for any ensemble libs like Albion as my only library.
 
That's true, but with its complicated setup and inconsistent programming it is not a good choice for beginners. It's complicated and difficult to use well. The Cinematic Studio Series have a much more beginner friendly learning curve.


Sorry but that's absolutely not true. It is as easy to use as any other library. Most of the libs out there which were released during a longer period of time have some small inconsistencies. And BTW I hate the way CSS is made, that you need to load ALL articulations section and then KS between them instead of having the option for loading specific arts separately. Also, CSS has super limited articulation option. The sound of the library is very nice, but I won't be buying it as my only String lib.
 
Just a note - you wouldn't need the whole Albion series if you're just getting in orchestrating. Albion II is discontinued, Albion 3-5 are fairly specific in their purpose, and just kind of expand a bit into more niche areas of the orchestra that Albion ONE already covers at a general level.

Also - you could get the Composer Cloud from East West for like $30 / month, and that gives you every product they have while your subscription is active. It might be safer way to get into learning, since it's a modest investment you can cancel. And plenty of very good composers use East West Hollywood series and get amazing results.

Honestly, if you're just getting into this, I think having a subscription option for a quality product is a smart way to go. If you don't like it, you're not out much money, and you'd still have time before your monthly payment expires to make a decision on something else.

The other two people are suggesting sting libraries only - not sure why, since you're asking about the entire orchestra.

That's exactly what I did this weekend but took the 1 year subscription for 19$ a month, I think I will need at least one year to get used to some of the instruments I want to learn and after that decide if they're worth the purchase or stay in subscription mode or even look other libraries around in the case I find out these don't give me what I need.

I like subscription plans when they're not the only choice for users.
 
It is as easy to use as any other library.

Erm, no.

And BTW I hate the way CSS is made,

That's personal preference and has nothing to do with the ease of use.

that you need to load ALL articulations section and then KS between them instead of having the option for loading specific arts separately.

Actually you can do that. Load all the articulations, then deactivate all but one. You can now set it up with individual patches just like Hollywood Orchestra.

Also, CSS has super limited articulation option.

For a beginner that is a good thing. It has all the necessary articulations to get you going. But good luck finding the right patch in Hollywood Strings if you don't know exactly what you are looking for.

If you are not sure about the difference between portato and portamento, with Hollywood Strings you are completely lost. And we are not even talking the difference between '1st Violins Leg Slur + Port RR LT 12 Ni', '1st Violins Sus 13 RR KSFP Ni', '1st Violins NV NV VB MV RR Ni', and '1st Violins Marc Sus 9 RR 4th pos Ni'.

If you are a power user it is great to have all these options. If you are just starting, they are unnecessarily confusing. A beginner will not know how fingerings on string instruments work, nor will they know what effect they have. Thus they don't need all these patches.

Compare that to 'Sustain', 'Staccato', 'Tremolo', etc. of Cinematic Studio Strings. Are very precise, all very simple to learn. So yes, it's a quite obvious fact that Cinematic Studio Strings are much easier to learn than Hollywood Strings, and thus, in my opinion, a better choice for any beginner.
 
For a beginner that is a good thing.

Very often, yes. But I'd argue that the breadth of articulations in SCS, or SStS would, in retrospect, have be best for myself as a beginner, given the type of music I want to write, and given how much I struggled in getting the right sound.

Libraries like Light and Sound and CSS gives you a fairly basic, and highly consistent palette, which is great if that's what you're looking for. But libraries like SCS and SStS (maybe hollywood string? ), let you hit the ground running and compose in a more painterly fashion from a broader palette.

Traditionally, I think learning to write starts with being restricted to what ever ensemble/ spaces is available to perform your work. Or, more realistically, writing within a simple palette since it's more likely that your student works will never be performed. So it makes sense that a traditional approach is maybe a bit less painterly, and on a somewhat more neutral palette.

But here's another place where modern libraries let us challenge some of the assumptions of how to learn composition.

And modern libraries give you the option of starting with a broader pallet and a more painterly approach. Which is a perfectly reasonably (also, really fun) place to start also.
 
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Erm, no.



That's personal preference and has nothing to do with the ease of use.



Actually you can do that. Load all the articulations, then deactivate all but one. You can now set it up with individual patches just like Hollywood Orchestra.



For a beginner that is a good thing. It has all the necessary articulations to get you going. But good luck finding the right patch in Hollywood Strings if you don't know exactly what you are looking for.

If you are not sure about the difference between portato and portamento, with Hollywood Strings you are completely lost. And we are not even talking the difference between '1st Violins Leg Slur + Port RR LT 12 Ni', '1st Violins Sus 13 RR KSFP Ni', '1st Violins NV NV VB MV RR Ni', and '1st Violins Marc Sus 9 RR 4th pos Ni'.

If you are a power user it is great to have all these options. If you are just starting, they are unnecessarily confusing. A beginner will not know how fingerings on string instruments work, nor will they know what effect they have. Thus they don't need all these patches.

Compare that to 'Sustain', 'Staccato', 'Tremolo', etc. of Cinematic Studio Strings. Are very precise, all very simple to learn. So yes, it's a quite obvious fact that Cinematic Studio Strings are much easier to learn than Hollywood Strings, and thus, in my opinion, a better choice for any beginner.
Yes. The same line of argument can be used to suggest why ensemble libraries can be so helpful when getting started, with individual instruments being drawn in initially for detail. Personally I came to VIs with lots of training and experience with live players and traditional orchestration and I found ensemble libraries initially much easier to work with once I got my head around what they were doing. Eventually I had to move away from ensemble libraries to gain more control (though I still find them exceptionally useful for sketching and if I need to work fast). Undoubtedly some of this, probably even a lot of it, is personal preference.
 
For a beginner that is a good thing. It has all the necessary articulations to get you going. But good luck finding the right patch in Hollywood Strings if you don't know exactly what you are looking for.

No, this is not a good thing, being beginner with VST libs does not mean you do not know what you want to compose. This is like the worst argument ever. How do you not know what you are looking for? Problem is that you usually know what sound you want, but it's not there...

If you are not sure about the difference between portato and portamento, with Hollywood Strings you are completely lost. And we are not even talking the difference between '1st Violins Leg Slur + Port RR LT 12 Ni', '1st Violins Sus 13 RR KSFP Ni', '1st Violins NV NV VB MV RR Ni', and '1st Violins Marc Sus 9 RR 4th pos Ni'.

If you are not sure, you will once load the patch and test it. Rest is clearly stated in the manual. If you are "beginner" you will simply start with the simple legato patches. Nothing hard about that. But you still have the option for going more detailed. Which you will need soon when you are making progress

If you are a power user it is great to have all these options. If you are just starting, they are unnecessarily confusing. A beginner will not know how fingerings on string instruments work, nor will they know what effect they have. Thus they don't need all these patches.

There are not any fingering specific patches in GOLD. Even if they were, you still have the option to not use them. But even if you are a beginner you still know that you sometimes want a cluster, string FX, run, etc. And these are not there in CSS and if you can afford only one lib, I would go for the one that has as many options as possible. Having them does not mean you have to be using them all the time. Still, don't understand your point of view.

Compare that to 'Sustain', 'Staccato', 'Tremolo', etc. of Cinematic Studio Strings. Are very precise, all very simple to learn. So yes, it's a quite obvious fact that Cinematic Studio Strings are much easier to learn than Hollywood Strings, and thus, in my opinion, a better choice for any beginner.

What is there to learn about tremolo or sustain patch? These are the simplest patches with no extra programming, you just use the modwheel for dynamics.

Beginner in computer composing does not mean someone who knows nothing about music.
 
Yes. The same line of argument can be used to suggest why ensemble libraries can be so helpful when getting started, with individual instruments being drawn in initially for detail. Personally I came to VIs with lots of training and experience with live players and traditional orchestration and I found ensemble libraries initially much easier to work with once I got my head around what they were doing. Eventually I had to move away from ensemble libraries to gain more control (though I still find them exceptionally useful for sketching and if I need to work fast). Undoubtedly some of this, probably even a lot of it, is personal preference.


This makes sense.

Coming to samples without already knowing how to write orchestral music, I found that a lot of I was coming up with via ensemble libraries was at best kind of bland, and at worst, derivative mush. (Admittedly this might not be entirely the fault to the ensemble libraries themselves :) ).

If solo instruments were good enough (and a few of them are starting to be, though they're can be prohibitively expensive to a beginner) I would advocate starting with learning how to compositions around detailed individual solo lines, and building from there.


But lacking adequately expressive solo instruments, I think that something like SStS has enough expressiveness, on a broad enough palette that learning I link learning how to craft individual lines.

I would distinguish this from 'texture' libraries - Tundra or OACE being the ultimate examples. Which are fantastic for a particular 'painterly' approach. But unless you're writing ambient music, I'd argue this should be coupled with a library that lets you write in some finer detail.



Undoubtedly personal preference though. I'm sure the whatever the pedagogical theory implicit in the Albion One "Start writing film music *now*" is is perfectly valid also.
 
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