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Orange Tree?

Lode_Runner

Senior Member
Oh, excellent. Thank you for that link.
You're welcome. OTS have a lot of libraries in the pipeline though, so there's no telling just how long it'll be until the ukeleles are released. If you need something sooner, Indiginus recently released a very nice ukelele library as well.
 

Wes Antczak

Senior Member
Thanks, once more! I have a couple libraries from Indiginus. They do great work and have very reasonable prices. I just round another one from AcousticSamples if you don't mind using the UVI platform (e.g. if you have Falcon, which I do). Cheers!
 

BezO

The Artisan
The articulation mapping in the PLAY section should still apply even when you're using one of the chord modes. However, bear in mind that the strum keys themselves don't impart a specific articulation--that's still dictated by how you have things set up in the articulation mapping, so they still follow the velocity ranges, keyswitches, etc., that you have set up.
I didn't realize that. Perfect!

As a side-note, we're planning to add a way of defining your own strum keys which ARE tied to an articulation. That way you can have strum keys that are palm muted next to ones that are played as open sustains, for example.
Even better! Looking forward to this implementation.
 

Sarah Mancuso

Esselfortium
I have all the Orange Tree guitars aside from the two recently-released basses, and they're wonderful. Out-of-the-box sound is quite nice already, and if you explore them deeply enough and are willing to delve into some automation, you can craft extremely detailed and realistic performances with them. Something about the Evolution guitars just makes them feel extremely comfy to write with in my experience.

One downside I haven't seen mentioned here is the lack of smart fretting algorithms, which means that if you're going for true realism you'll probably be doing some automation of hand position for chord playing and using the force-string keys for soloing. Shreddage 3 seems to be the absolute state-of-the-art for fretting algorithms, with several options for different types of playing, and I'd love to see something similar in the Evolution guitars someday.
 

BezO

The Artisan
...One downside I haven't seen mentioned here is the lack of smart fretting algorithms, which means that if you're going for true realism you'll probably be doing some automation of hand position for chord playing and using the force-string keys for soloing. Shreddage 3 seems to be the absolute state-of-the-art for fretting algorithms, with several options for different types of playing, and I'd love to see something similar in the Evolution guitars someday.
My main issue. Even in Chord Modes, You can get some unrealistic chord fretting. They need another Chord mode, splitting the difference between Automatic chords & Auto.
 

gregjazz

Senior Member
You're welcome. OTS have a lot of libraries in the pipeline though, so there's no telling just how long it'll be until the ukeleles are released. If you need something sooner, Indiginus recently released a very nice ukelele library as well.
We have the ukulele collection already recorded and the samples processed, but it's at the point where they'll really need the next major version of our Evolution engine. That's partly because it will require this new version in order for the library to contain multiple, different instruments (each with differently tuned strings, etc.). Since we don't have an ETA for when all that will be ready, it would be best to go with something available right now such as the new Indiginus ukulele if you need a ukulele solution right away.

My main issue. Even in Chord Modes, You can get some unrealistic chord fretting. They need another Chord mode, splitting the difference between Automatic chords & Auto.
I need to add more logic for the automatic chords, such as index finger barring and optional thumb usage (though that's a stylistic thing). While it currently takes into consideration the inversion you play the chord in, it might be nice if the octave had some effect in terms of where the chord is played on the fretboard rather than strictly referring to the current fretting position. Also, while the custom chords mode uses the automatic chords mode as a fallback when a chord hasn't been defined, it would be nice if there were a way to copy automatic chord voicings as a starting point for the custom chords.

In terms of fretting in general, I have a few more parameters that were designed to be customizable, such as fretting hand reach, but I didn't end up adding the user-facing adjustment in the SETUP section because I initially thought something like that would be way too specific for a user to want to control. I should at least provide things like that through some sort of advanced customization.

I have a lot of other ideas and plans on how to improve the fretting position algorithm and chord voicings, but those will be addressed in the next major version of the Evolution engine we're working on. There might be some small updates released for the current version, but our main focus is on the larger update, particularly when it comes to more significant improvements to things like the strumming pattern editor, etc.
 

ionian

Member
Generally wondering about their stuff and anyone here who has used, what you thought about whatever you used etc.
I had bought Strawberry and Stratosphere and both sounded excellent but then Orange Tree totally screwed up the GUI. They used to have the whole guitar so you could see the pick direction and then decided to cut that out and just focus on the fretboard which was really an odd choice since the fretboard display is so laughably inaccurate on which notes are being played in what position and how the chords are fretted that it boggled my mind as to why they would focus on the fretboard and do away with the pick direction.

Typical developer stuff...two steps forward, one step back. What else is new.

The good thing that came out of all this is that the change was so annoying I just decided to learn guitar and stop using guitar libraries. After a developer makes a bad decision and you lose faith, you start thinking, "Who know how many more bad decisions are coming. Do I really want to be chained to more of this developer's bad decisions?" Normally I would have switched to a different sample company, but I honestly feel that the Orange Tree guitar libraries were the best out there already so since I lost faith in them and there was no other developers to switch to, that's kind of what made me think that if you don't want to hitch your wagon to more bad decisions, the next step is just to learn the instrument.

I figured out something along the way - an electric guitar, even played badly already sounds better than a sample library. Orange Tree libraries I still think are at the top when it comes to guitar libraries but even Strawberry and Stratosphere has a lot of weird resonances I was always EQ'ing out to get a usable sound. The first time I threw a mic on a guitar amp and just recorded, it was eye opening. It already sounded better than the two libraries I had with virtually no effort. Even played badly, the libraries couldn't compete tone wise.

I get that this isn't an option for everyone and I also acknowledge that I have an advantage as I already make a living as a session musician (piano / keys) and so the only other people I know are really session cats and so when I decided to learn guitar, basically in exchange for a pizza and a six pack I got lessons from some of the best guitarists on the planet (And exchanged some piano lessons for them as well!)

But if you're already a musician, it's not impossible to pick up guitar. Within 3 months of woodshedding I could pretty much play whatever I needed and within 6 months I was gigging on guitar and actually picking up work.

The guitar libraries (or at least the two I have) sounded great and like I said are probably at the top of the heap when it comes to sample library guitars. So if you pick them up, you won't be disappointed.

In the end, I honestly have to thank Orange Tree because if they didn't screw up their GUI, I would have still been using the libraries (and most likely dumped a ton on more because all of their guitar libraries would have been ones I needed) but instead I actually ended up ditching the libraries and learning a new skill that not only opened my ears, but has made me income. The money I would have spent on their libraries instead I invested on real instruments and that's probably for the better.

Seriously though - anyone on the fence of a sample library, try throwing a mic on a real instrument and play it (even badly) and I guarantee you, it'll be eye opening. It just might be the thing to push you to learn a new instrument!
 

gregjazz

Senior Member
The reason we focused on the fretboard instead of the entire guitar graphic as previously is because it results in a better use of space, and you can see the notes on the fretboard much better. I can see the value in adding back an indication of the pick direction, though.

Bear in mind that the library is created for non-guitarists in the first place. When we enforced the physical limitations of the guitar in the previous version, it resulted in more realistic fretting, but it also made performance a lot less predictable to use. People were confused why you couldn't play certain notes at the same time, or why certain arpeggios would contain notes that were played as legato. I'm a guitarist and keyboardist myself, so I can see both sides of the issue, but a majority of our customers use our guitar libraries because they don't play guitar in the first place. These changes we've been making to the engine over the years is the result of a lot of customer feedback.
 

bbunker

Senior Member
Seriously though - anyone on the fence of a sample library, try throwing a mic on a real instrument and play it (even badly) and I guarantee you, it'll be eye opening. It just might be the thing to push you to learn a new instrument!
Huh. I'd have to say I don't agree with this. Literally 100% don't agree with this. Weird resonances in the sampled instruments? Not in the amp sims or cab emulations on them, but in the instruments? I don't think so. I've got most of the instruments Greg is sampling, and the tone is pretty legit - it's clearly a buffered signal going in, the strings all are in that nice in-between age in terms of tone. It kind of sounds like you don't like the presets - which probably has more to do with the amp and cab sims than the instruments? I mean - have you tried running them into a better set of sims than Guitar Rig? Nothing against GR, but I despise it.

It just feels a little bit weird to me. I did a bunch of sessions back in the early 2000's, and a ton of those were just an iteration of a POD straight into the board if it was a pop demo. Everything I did for other people that made it onto a record was just a POD. I mean it's fairly obvious that a good guitar into a decent little amp mic'ed up well is going to sound better than a guitar sample library into an amp sim, but...I mean, a sampled guitar isn't really competing with a live guitar mic'ed up, it's competing with live guitar through the same amp sims, right? I wonder if I took a couple of the same guitars Greg sampled, ran them through Hybrit and Tonehammer, played as clean and robotically as possible, edited them straight to the beat, and put the same quantized notes into a sample library if you'd really be able to tell the difference.

So you really mic up an amp every time you're going to put some little electric thing on a throwaway track? My mind is indeed boggled.
 

Robert_G

It really is just an expensive hobby for me
How many own the Texas Twang and love it? Got my eye on it to go with the Lap Steel.
 
I was planning on getting Angelic Harp while the group buy is on. I was wondering, can I buy it now at 50% discount or do I need to wait until the end of the group buy to reach 60% before I can buy it? Not sure I completely understand how the group buy works.
 

k4music

Member
I was planning on getting Angelic Harp while the group buy is on. I was wondering, can I buy it now at 50% discount or do I need to wait until the end of the group buy to reach 60% before I can buy it? Not sure I completely understand how the group buy works.
you have to wait till 60% discount tier or till the end of groupbuy date whichever is earlier.
 

Digivolt

Member
Can any one summarise to a newbie what makes OTS the top tier vs say the likes of Efimov and Pettinhouse ? I was planning on getting a couple of OTS libs in the group buy, but that Pettinhouse full bundle for $119 looks mighty tempting too, unfortunately my budget can't stretch to getting both, so any advice would be welcome.
 

wst3

my office these days
one person's opinion only - I like the overall sound of the OrangeTree libraries a little better, and I like (or am accustomed to?) the articulation switching.

All three are pretty darned good developers, and unfortunately the only way to know for certain is to buy them.

If you are just looking for a wide variety of guitar sounds then the Pettinghouse deal might be the way to go. If you are looking for a handful of specific sounds then OTS might win.
 

Fleer

Feeding the Trolls
Good point. Indeed, the Pettinhouse bundle is a great sale, as these are quality guitar libraries by a great developer, and at that price you should get them (as I did). Efimov is very good too, for me they are at a similar level. However, I do see OrangeTreeSamples playing in a different league, highly consistent throughout, with mostly Kontakt Player libraries, and great follow up plus support. And if you're getting OrangeTreeSamples libraries, there's only one time each year to do so without breaking the bank. I do believe Pettinhouse will be running their bundle price for a while longer (as they have been).
Conclusion: get the ones you want from OrangeTreeSamples now, while the Group Buy is still on. Then get the Pettinhouse bundle next time your budget allows you to.
 

Polkasound

Senior Member
I would highly recommend that you grab at least one OT guitar during the group buy to familiarize yourself with the OT guitar sound and interface. You won't regret it. To be honest, the OT guitars I've purchased over the past few years have mostly replaced my Pettinhouse guitars, but with some exceptions. Even though I own seven or eight OT guitars now, I still use a few of my Pettinhouse guitars now and then.

On a recent song, I used both OT and Pettinhouse. I used the OT guitar for four measures on a part that required a specific funky strumming technique and finish with a trill. The OT guitar allowed me to program the strumming exactly how I needed it, and the excellent sampling of hammer ons/offs made the trill shine. I'm not a fan of the OT strumming engine in general, and would likely never use an OT guitar for an entire strummed guitar track, but for the specific, small strummed part I needed, it was perfect.

A few measures later in that same song, I used the Pettinhouse guitar for about eight measures because the sound was just what I needed, and the GUI allowed me to create the funk pattern I needed.

When it comes to solo guitar playing, I think OT guitars are the tops. Load up any guitar, start playing, and you'll hear the results of superior sampling and scripting right off the bat. And auditioning their snapshots is a blast. Instant inspiration.

The other day, I was working on an acoustic guitar accompaniment to a ballad using OT's Steel Strings guitar. For the heck of it, I played the same part using Pettinhouse Acoustic Guitar 2.0 and MusicLab RealGuitar 4. The OT guitar simply outshone the other guitars. The other guitars sounded great, but OT's guitar sounded the most natural.

I own some of Efimov's Russian instruments, but none of his guitars, so I can't comment on them.
 
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