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wst3

my office these days
Moderator
Wow, that's such a pity your Les Paul was stolen, and just three years into playing it!
It's funny, in an odd way, the guitar was stolen in 1977, and I still miss it. Likely a great deal of that is a rose colored rear view mirror, but dang!

The thief also grabbed a Dan Armstrong Electric (the Lucite model) that I had just finally tamed, and a Yamaha FG-180. I don't lament the loss of those nearly as much, they were nice guitars (the Dan Armstrong was a great slide guitar), but the Les Paul still stings.
 

sostenuto

Big NKS Fan !
Only lacking latest (2) Bass libs. Great prices now, but Greg is sooo cool !!
Site (logged IN) took me automatically to Big Bottom Bundle at more savings, & some Orange Slices.
Downloading now … :thumbsup:
 
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ManicMiner

in the Skylab landing bay
Just bought and downloaded my Evolution guitar. I've got a question about compression. The .RAR files total to 3.78GB, but when unzipped , they uncompress to only 3.86GB. I was expecting the uncompressed files to be a lot larger filesize than the compressed ones.
Unless the .NKX files are themselves compressed and are uncompressed by Kontakt when the library is initialised?
 

dzilizzi

I know nothing
Just bought and downloaded my Evolution guitar. I've got a question about compression. The .RAR files total to 3.78GB, but when unzipped , they uncompress to only 3.86GB. I was expecting the uncompressed files to be a lot larger filesize than the compressed ones.
Unless the .NKX files are themselves compressed and are uncompressed by Kontakt when the library is initialised?
RAR files don't compress much. However they allow for multiple files to be unzipped into one folder. You unzip #1 and it automatically unzips #2 and #3 ( or however many there are)
 

Sarah Mancuso

Esselfortium
Just bought and downloaded my Evolution guitar. I've got a question about compression. The .RAR files total to 3.78GB, but when unzipped , they uncompress to only 3.86GB. I was expecting the uncompressed files to be a lot larger filesize than the compressed ones.
Unless the .NKX files are themselves compressed and are uncompressed by Kontakt when the library is initialised?
The samples themselves are using Kontakt's compression, yes.
 
OP
gregjazz

gregjazz

Senior Member
With Kontakt's NCW losslessly compressed samples, RAR compression doesn't make a big difference any more. The primary reason we still use the format is because of how it can split a single archive across multiple files (which can still be extracted at once since it's still technically considered a single archive), making the download more manageable.
 

Robert_G

It really is just an expensive hobby for me
I know I can use orange slices during the sale, but do they give out orange slices for stuff you by at 60% off?
 

jneebz

Senior Member
I love the tones I get from my Evolution Stratosphere...and the Rock Standard would be SUCH a nice addition. But here's my problem...these libraries really only shine when you're good at playing a keyboard like a guitar, right? Any resources for learning how to do that better? I do play real guitars, but I'm pretty much a hack ;)
 

Peter Williams

New Member
I love the tones I get from my Evolution Stratosphere...and the Rock Standard would be SUCH a nice addition. But here's my problem...these libraries really only shine when you're good at playing a keyboard like a guitar, right? Any resources for learning how to do that better? I do play real guitars, but I'm pretty much a hack ;)
Let your ear be your guide. Listen to guitar players that you like.
 
I love the tones I get from my Evolution Stratosphere...and the Rock Standard would be SUCH a nice addition. But here's my problem...these libraries really only shine when you're good at playing a keyboard like a guitar, right? Any resources for learning how to do that better? I do play real guitars, but I'm pretty much a hack ;)
I play real guitars too and I´m really bad at keyboard. :whistling:

I´m so satisfied with what I can get from OT´s guitars (since I cannot afford all guitars in the world) that I´m going for the full guitar bundle this time. So, these are the main things to get a realistic vibe imo:

1- Learn the VI from the inside out. Manual, walkthrough, forums, anything that can make you really an expert.

2- Play the part that you are programming on your guitar, specially when you feel that the sound you're getting is unrealistic. Pay attention to your guitar, the differences in volume between strings when you play that part, how you play it live and try to mimic that with your VI.

3- Avoid heavy quantisation. Avoid equal velocities and very distant velocities from each other.

4- That's so simple but was really a game changer for me: avoid high velocities. Its funny, but on almost every VI I have, no matter what instrument I use, velocities below 100-110 instantly makes them sound much more realistic. Of course that in some cases this will not work so well, but give it a try. Almost always I prefer my instruments with lower velocities (not THAT low tho).
 
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august80

Member
4- That's is so simple but was really a game changer for me: avoid high velocities. Its funny, but on almost every VI I have, no matter what instrument I use, velocities below 100-110 instantly makes them sound much more realistic. Of course that in some cases this will not work so well, but give it a try. Almost always I prefer my instruments with lower velocities (not THAT low tho).
This one is extremely important. Most instruments behave very differently at high velocity. You get a lot of resonance throughout the body of the instrument, across all the others strings, etc. which accumulate and bounce of each other as notes are played in sequence. Performing at high velocity is also quite different, and more random, as precise muscle control becomes a bit more difficult even for the best musicians. We're used to hearing that randomness in live / recorded music. All these things are difficult or impossible to replicate with current VI technology - particular the interplay across the instrument, since notes are recorded in isolation.

It's not as noticeable at lower velocities, because this interplay between the body / other strings isn't as prominent in a real instrument as you decrease in velocity. As a rule I generally put a hard cap on the midi velocity around 105 for almost all instruments (depends on the library though), unless I'm doing something where pure realism isn't necessary (trailer stuff). If I'm asked to do something entirely with real instruments at high velocity, I'll generally try and get real musicians.

In my opinion, this is one of the final frontiers of sample libraries - how to replicate how multiple notes interact with one another across the body of the instrument and with other strings in the case of string instruments. This is also why I don't really like virtual pianos - they all sound super weird to me. And it's mainly because they're all missing that resonating interplay of notes across all the strings and the body of the piano, which is basically a chaos of harmonics. So they all sound too clean / boring to me - although hitting one note generally sounds pretty good because, again, it's in isolation. I believe PianoTeq has tried to model this effect, but it still sounds bizarre to me.
 
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Quasar

Senior Member
I know I can use orange slices during the sale, but do they give out orange slices for stuff you by at 60% off?
They do. I have done this. EDIT: I misunderstood. Not sure about receiving orange slices when buying at discount. Sorry.
 

CGR

Pianist, Composer & Arranger
This one is extremely important. Most instruments behave very differently at high velocity. You get a lot of resonance throughout the body of the instrument, across all the others strings, etc. which accumulate and bounce of each other as notes are played in sequence. This is something virtual instruments either can't replicate, or a do a bad job of, since notes are recorded in isolation.

It's not as noticeable at lower velocities, because this interplay between the body / other strings isn't as prominent in a real instrument as you decrease in velocity. As a rule I generally put a hard cap on the midi velocity around 105 for almost all instruments, unless I'm doing something where pure realism isn't necessary (trailer stuff).

In my opinion, this is one of the final frontiers of sample libraries - how to replicate how multiple notes interact with one another and the body of the instrument. This is also why I don't really like virtual pianos - they all sound super weird to me. And it's mainly because they're all missing that resonating interplay of notes across all the strings and the body of the piano. So they all sound too clean / boring to me. I believe PianoTeq has tried to model this effect, but it still sounds bizarre to me.
Ditto. Those higher velocities in guitars & pianos really scream 'sampled' to me. When recording MIDI parts, I used to monitor at fairly low-moderate volume levels (to avoid ear fatigue) but this tricked me into hitting the keys harder to hear what I was playing, triggering those unnaturally high velocities. I now monitor at moderate to high volume levels, and the MIDI parts I'm putting down are sounding far more natural & nuanced.
 

Sarah Mancuso

Esselfortium
One of my favorite ways to add some more humanity to a sequenced guitar part is giving the end of some notes a subtle slide toward the next note, looking at the guitar fretboard in Kontakt to see where the slide should be aiming.

With the OTS Evolution guitars, I usually have automation lanes for Legato Volume (since the Velocity Slide articulation can't control volume and speed independently), Legato Up Range, and Legato Down Range, to be able to slide as far as needed and to get the volume just right.

(A more efficient way of doing this would be fantastic in an Evolution engine update... I'd like to see a way to fine-tune slide volume and speed independently without automation, maybe using the note velocity for volume and the keyswitch velocity for speed, and a way to force slides regardless of legato range.)

The effect I go for is usually pretty subtle, especially with acoustic guitar parts where depending on how soft and intimate the piece is it might even be like the barely-perceptible ghost of a slide as a note ends. Layer it with a fret noise if needed, then you start the next note with another pick.

Examples with some OTS acoustic guitars:

(acoustic solo starting around 1:25)

OTS Strawberry electric solo around 1:15 (and some OTS mandolin throughout)
Especially in the part around 1:40 where the electric guitar does some slow upward lines, the subtle slides add some extra character.

It's easy to overdo this and end up with an unnatural result, but if you can get a sense for where it feels right musically (and logistically), it lends some nice added tactile feel to your virtual guitarist, I think!
 
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